Lots of articles on the format, but the real stunner is the group
stage, which is a league but _not_ a round-robin. So there are plenty
of possibilities for unfair draws. I didn't see any information on scheduling or any pot divisions between big and small teams like in
the CL. Anyone have anything on that?
--
ciao, Bruce
Lots of articles on the format, but the real stunner is the groupSwiss system, widely used in chess tournaments, and once (somewhat) in a World Cup (which one? Of course, Switzerland 1954!).
stage, which is a league but _not_ a round-robin. So there are plenty
of possibilities for unfair draws. I didn't see any information on scheduling or any pot divisions between big and small teams like in
the CL. Anyone have anything on that?
Em quinta-feira, 12 de maio de 2022 |as 09:42:07 UTC-3, Bruce Scott escreveu:So basically in a 36 team league, each team gets 8 matches (4H & 4A) based on some unknown seeding system. The top 8 go straight to the R16, while the 9th-24th play a 2-legged playoff to determine the other 8 for the R16. R16 onwards follows the same format as today.
Lots of articles on the format, but the real stunner is the groupSwiss system, widely used in chess tournaments, and once (somewhat) in a World Cup (which one? Of course, Switzerland 1954!).
stage, which is a league but _not_ a round-robin. So there are plenty
of possibilities for unfair draws. I didn't see any information on scheduling or any pot divisions between big and small teams like in
the CL. Anyone have anything on that?
It makes for significant games in every round, and the strong teams tend to play each other more often than in some random setup.
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
So basically in a 36 team league, each team gets 8 matches (4H & 4A)
based on some unknown seeding system.
So basically in a 36 team league, each team gets 8 matches (4H & 4A)
based on some unknown seeding system.
Swiss pairings are OK (I used to play in chess tournaments), but is FIFA going to publish the rules ahead of time or are we in for a few surprises?
-- HASM--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
Swiss pairings are OK (I used to play in chess tournaments), but is
FIFA going to publish the rules ahead of time or are we in for a
few surprises?
Em quinta-feira, 12 de maio de 2022 |as 09:42:07 UTC-3, Bruce Scott escreveu:
Lots of articles on the format, but the real stunner is the group
stage, which is a league but _not_ a round-robin. So there are plenty
of possibilities for unfair draws. I didn't see any information on
scheduling or any pot divisions between big and small teams like in
the CL. Anyone have anything on that?
Swiss system, widely used in chess tournaments, and once (somewhat) in a World Cup (which one? Of course, Switzerland 1954!).
It makes for significant games in every round, and the strong teams tend to play each other more often than in some random setup.
Tchau!--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
Jesus Petry
HASM wrote:The big clubs will end up in the latter stages simply because they are stronger, rather than any specific format.
Swiss pairings are OK (I used to play in chess tournaments), but isYeah, I'm also familiar with the Swiss-system tournament format
FIFA going to publish the rules ahead of time or are we in for a
few surprises?
through Chess, but this will be UEFA's 'version' of it. So expect
something completely different!!!
Call my cynical, but I still think whatever way UEFA proceed it'll
still end up with the same BIG clubs in the latter stages.
On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 5:24:06 PM UTC-4, Blueshirt wrote:
HASM wrote:
Swiss pairings are OK (I used to play in chess tournaments),Yeah, I'm also familiar with the Swiss-system tournament format
but is FIFA going to publish the rules ahead of time or are we
in for a few surprises?
through Chess, but this will be UEFA's 'version' of it. So expect something completely different!!!
Call my cynical, but I still think whatever way UEFA proceed
it'll still end up with the same BIG clubs in the latter stages.
The big clubs will end up in the latter stages simply because they
are stronger, rather than any specific format.
What I like the most about the revamp is that CL losers don't get a
second bite of the apple in the EL. To me that really compromised
the integrity of the EL. It also wouldn't give the big teams (think
Man U last season and Barca this season) a BS excuse to re-brand
their season as a success by winning the EL, when in truth they had
failed miserably by not even getting out of the group stage in the
CL.
If it were a real Swiss system, I could get behind it a lot more. But
it will be more like the qualifying round of the Concacaf nations league
was - predetermined fixtures based on seeding into pots based on coefficients. Still might be very interesting, and the fact that 2/3
of the teams will still be in it after the group stage probably irons
out any big unfairnesses in the predetermined scheduling.
Each team in the top seeded pot will only play two games against other
teams in that pot; that would usually be higher, I think, with a true
swiss.
On 2022-05-12, MH <MHnospam@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
If it were a real Swiss system, I could get behind it a lot more. But
it will be more like the qualifying round of the Concacaf nations league
was - predetermined fixtures based on seeding into pots based on
coefficients. Still might be very interesting, and the fact that 2/3
of the teams will still be in it after the group stage probably irons
out any big unfairnesses in the predetermined scheduling.
I agree, it was never going to be the system we use in Chess. Nobody
could do the necessary travel planning with that. It's not the same
thing as a chess tournament where everybody is all staying in the same
hotel or just nearby.
With 2/3 still in it, a bit like ice hockey tournaments. We know even
the USA will be in the KO rounds unless there's a massive f-up (like
almost losing to Austria).
Each team in the top seeded pot will only play two games against other
teams in that pot; that would usually be higher, I think, with a true
swiss.
A little seeding with this setup is better than no seeding, where dumb
luck could provide for some very uneven match comparisons.
[...]
I always wonder about this. In the old days of the CL, CWC and UEFA cup,
the next opponent was never determined until after the previous round.
How would a true Swiss system differ from this? I guess there was more
space between rounds in those days, but still.
Similarly, in playoffs in North American sports, they always manage to
do things without a fixed grid - opponents are determined after the
previous round, based on re-seeding.
Really? I thought the brackets were set beforehand (surely they wereI think in the NBA the brackets are set in advance (of course there is still a lot of uncertainty as to the timing of matches), while in the NFL I believe that they adjust dynamically so that the top seeded team remaining in the draw meets the lowest seeded team.
in baseball and the NFL) in the old days. I thought they still were
today, also in the NBA.
On 2022-05-19, MH <MHnospam@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
[...]
I always wonder about this. In the old days of the CL, CWC and UEFA cup,
the next opponent was never determined until after the previous round.
How would a true Swiss system differ from this? I guess there was more
space between rounds in those days, but still.
In UEFA, no comparison now to then, in terms of business and the
professional level. Travel entourages were pretty minimal, and
hotels in cities were not booked out weeks in advance (no internet,
much less international travel in general). I'm thinking of the
1970s...
Similarly, in playoffs in North American sports, they always manage to
do things without a fixed grid - opponents are determined after the
previous round, based on re-seeding.
Really? I thought the brackets were set beforehand (surely they were
in baseball and the NFL) in the old days. I thought they still were
today, also in the NBA.
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