For the first time ever, since the start of icehockey leagues in Sweden in
the 1920s, Stockholm (the COUNTY, 2.4 million, ~23% of Sweden total), will
not have representation in the top flight next season.

Djurgordens IF, the last stand, was relegated yesterday after losing the 7 games playout series against Timro IK by 0-4.

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team
sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?


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On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 3:52:15 AM UTC-4, anders t wrote:

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

Paris was a relative backwater in footballing terms for long stretches of time, I'd have to check whether there were years in which they had no representation in Ligue 1.
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On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 10:47:45 AM UTC-4, Futbolmetrix wrote:

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 3:52:15 AM UTC-4, anders t wrote:

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

Paris was a relative backwater in footballing terms for long stretches of time, I'd have to check whether there were years in which they had no representation in Ligue 1.

Apparently not. The main Parisian club up to about the 1960s Racing Club. They did drop once to the second division at the end of the 1952-53 season, but Parisian representation in the top flight was guaranteed by Stade Francais. Then Racing dropped again at the end of the 1963-64 season, but again Stade Francais was there to hold up the Parisian banner. Stade Francais finished in last place in 1966-67, but in the same year Red Star gained promotion, so the capital's representation was preserved. PSG made their first appearance in the first division in 1971-72, and they have never left.
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On Sunday, 3 April 2022 at 09:52:15 UTC+2, anders t wrote:

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

Hertha has been in the second division a handful of times, since Berlin was reinstated as the capital, without another Berlin team filling in.
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On 2022-04-03 01:52, anders t wrote:

For the first time ever, since the start of icehockey leagues in Sweden in the 1920s, Stockholm (the COUNTY, 2.4 million, ~23% of Sweden total), will not have representation in the top flight next season.

Djurg|Nrdens IF, the last stand, was relegated yesterday after losing the 7 games playout series against Timr|N IK by 0-4.

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team
sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

There was a long period when Ottawa did not have a CFL team, between the Roughriders and the RedBlacks.

Also a long period between the original NHL Senators and the new
incarnation.

But then again, Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver census metropolitan
areas are bigger than Ottawa, maybe Calgary and Edmonton too.

Again in Brazil there have been times (I am sure Lleo and Jesus will
correct me if I am wrong; perhaps they have already posted about this)
when Brasilia had no representatives in the top league. In fact it seems
there are none right now

Pretty sure both Hibs and Hearts were not in the top league not too long
ago, though I think it only lasted for a year and I would have to look
up which year.

And there have been lots of years with no Berlin representation in the Bundesliga.



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On 2022-04-03 15:40, MH wrote:

On 2022-04-03 01:52, anders t wrote:

For the first time ever, since the start of icehockey leagues in
Sweden in
the 1920s, Stockholm (the COUNTY, 2.4 million, ~23% of Sweden total),
will
not have representation in the top flight next season.

Djurg|Nrdens IF, the last stand, was relegated yesterday after losing
the 7
games playout series against Timr|N IK by 0-4.

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team
sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

There was a long period when Ottawa did not have a CFL team, between the Roughriders and the RedBlacks.

Also a long period between the original NHL Senators and the new incarnation.

But then again, Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver census metropolitan
areas are bigger than Ottawa, maybe Calgary and Edmonton too.

Again in Brazil there have been times (I am sure Lleo and Jesus will
correct me if I am wrong; perhaps they have already posted about this)
when Brasilia had no representatives in the top league. In fact it seems there are none right now

Pretty sure both Hibs and Hearts were not in the top league not too long ago, though I think it only lasted for a year and I would have to look
up which year.

Yup, 2013/2014 season both Hibs and Hearts were relegated.

And there have been lots of years with no Berlin representation in the Bundesliga.

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On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:52:15 AM UTC+2, anders t wrote:

For the first time ever, since the start of icehockey leagues in Sweden in the 1920s, Stockholm (the COUNTY, 2.4 million, ~23% of Sweden total), will not have representation in the top flight next season.

Djurg|Nrdens IF, the last stand, was relegated yesterday after losing the 7 games playout series against Timr|N IK by 0-4.

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

There is no team from Ankara in this season's S|+per Lig, and apart from being the capital
it's also Turkey's second-biggest city (pop. 5.000.000). It looks as if that will be rectified next
season as Ankarag|+c|+ will most likely be promoted, but at the same time both teams from
Izmir (third-biggest city, pop. 3.000.000) might very well get relegated.
All this while Istanbul has six teams in the league, and next season probably seven, perhaps
even eight.
Another interesting case is Luxembourg - a team from the capital hasn't won the league
title since 1992, and in 2014/15 they didn't even have a representative among the 14 clubs
in the top division: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Luxembourg_National_Division
Ciao,
Werner

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Latest: England '13 (20th) Europa '17, UEFA '08, World '08

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On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:52:15 AM UTC+2, anders t wrote:

For the first time ever, since the start of icehockey leagues in Sweden in the 1920s, Stockholm (the COUNTY, 2.4 million, ~23% of Sweden total), will not have representation in the top flight next season.

I see it's already been quite close in the past (e.g. 2006/07 or 2008/09).
Is Stockholm historically less of a hockey hotbed than other parts of the country?
Ciao,
Werner

Djurg|Nrdens IF, the last stand, was relegated yesterday after losing the 7 games playout series against Timr|N IK by 0-4.

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

--
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Latest: England '13 (20th) Europa '17, UEFA '08, World '08

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Jesper Lauridsen escreveu:

On Sunday, 3 April 2022 at 09:52:15 UTC+2, anders t wrote:

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

Hertha has been in the second division a handful of times, since Berlin was reinstated as the capital,
without another Berlin team filling in.

Before that time, did the old West Germany's Bundesliga ever have any team from Bonn?
--
Ll|-o
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On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 1:38:10 AM UTC+2, Ll|-o wrote:

Jesper Lauridsen escreveu:

On Sunday, 3 April 2022 at 09:52:15 UTC+2, anders t wrote:

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

Hertha has been in the second division a handful of times, since Berlin was reinstated as the capital,
without another Berlin team filling in.

Before that time, did the old West Germany's Bundesliga ever have any team from Bonn?

No. Bonn is the biggest German city (pop. 350.000) to never have had a Bundesliga team (followed by
Wiesbaden, Kiel, L|+beck, and Kassel).
Bonner SC played one season in 2. Bundesliga (1976/77) in which they went bankrupt, and following
a long decline, another bankruptcy and a re-start from the bottom, have currently stabilized in the lower
reaches of Regionalliga West (4th level) since 2016/17.
Biggest team in the city are the Telekom Baskets, five times runner-up in the German Basketball Bundesliga.
Ciao,
Werner
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On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 5:40:29 PM UTC-4, MH wrote:

On 2022-04-03 01:52, anders t wrote:

There was a long period when Ottawa did not have a CFL team, between the Roughriders and the RedBlacks.

If you start looking at other sports, then it must be rather common. Italy has a pretty serious professional volleyball league (probably the best league in the world?), but Rome is very rarely represented.
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On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 11:51:53 PM UTC+2, Werner Pichler wrote:

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:52:15 AM UTC+2, anders t wrote:

For the first time ever, since the start of icehockey leagues in Sweden in the 1920s, Stockholm (the COUNTY, 2.4 million, ~23% of Sweden total), will not have representation in the top flight next season.

Djurg|Nrdens IF, the last stand, was relegated yesterday after losing the 7
games playout series against Timr|N IK by 0-4.

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

There is no team from Ankara in this season's S|+per Lig, and apart from being the capital
it's also Turkey's second-biggest city (pop. 5.000.000). It looks as if that will be rectified next
season as Ankarag|+c|+ will most likely be promoted, but at the same time both teams from
Izmir (third-biggest city, pop. 3.000.000) might very well get relegated. All this while Istanbul has six teams in the league, and next season probably seven, perhaps
even eight.

Another interesting case is Luxembourg - a team from the capital hasn't won the league
title since 1992, and in 2014/15 they didn't even have a representative among the 14 clubs
in the top division: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Luxembourg_National_Division

There was no Oslo team in the Norwegian First Division in 1976: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Norwegian_First_Division
(although Lillestr|+m can be considered part of the Oslo metropolitan area)
And without actually wanting to raise the thorny capital issue, I can't help but notice
that both Jerusalem teams are flirting with relegation this season in the Israeli Premier League.
Ciao,
Werner
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On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 2:50:35 AM UTC+2, Werner Pichler wrote:

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 11:51:53 PM UTC+2, Werner Pichler wrote:

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:52:15 AM UTC+2, anders t wrote:

For the first time ever, since the start of icehockey leagues in Sweden in
the 1920s, Stockholm (the COUNTY, 2.4 million, ~23% of Sweden total), will
not have representation in the top flight next season.

Djurg|Nrdens IF, the last stand, was relegated yesterday after losing the 7
games playout series against Timr|N IK by 0-4.

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

There is no team from Ankara in this season's S|+per Lig, and apart from being the capital
it's also Turkey's second-biggest city (pop. 5.000.000). It looks as if that will be rectified next
season as Ankarag|+c|+ will most likely be promoted, but at the same time both teams from
Izmir (third-biggest city, pop. 3.000.000) might very well get relegated. All this while Istanbul has six teams in the league, and next season probably seven, perhaps
even eight.

Another interesting case is Luxembourg - a team from the capital hasn't won the league
title since 1992, and in 2014/15 they didn't even have a representative among the 14 clubs
in the top division: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Luxembourg_National_Division

There was no Oslo team in the Norwegian First Division in 1976: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Norwegian_First_Division
(although Lillestr|+m can be considered part of the Oslo metropolitan area)

Also somewhat debatable, but after FC Tokyo had been relegated in 2010 (and Tokyo Verdy in 2008),
there was no team from the City of Tokyo proper in the 2011 J League: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_J.League_Division_1
Couple of teams from Greater Tokyo though.
Ciao,
Werner

And without actually wanting to raise the thorny capital issue, I can't help but notice
that both Jerusalem teams are flirting with relegation this season in the Israeli Premier League.

Ciao,
Werner

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MH escreveu:
[SNIP]

Again in Brazil there have been times (I am sure Lleo and Jesus will
correct me if I am wrong; perhaps they have already posted about this)
when Brasilia had no representatives in the top league. In fact it seems there are none right now

You are correct. In fact, this is the usual scenario, actually. Teams from
the proper city of Brasilia only ever took part of the Brazilian league when participation was quota-based (ie, each state was given an amount of spots
and the top-n teams in the state league would fill it, pretty much like the Champions League and the European national leagues do). The last one was Brasilia FC (the "colorado candango") in 1985.
Post-1985, one would have to go into the wider area of the Brazilian Federal District, ie, counting the satellite towns around Brasilia. Then you'd find Gama (from the eponymously named city) who played in Serie A from 1999 to 2002,
and Brasiliense (from Taguatinga), with a sole Serie A appearance in 2005.
That is it, and it gets even worse. Brasiliense's relegation from Serie B in 2010 and Serie C in 2013 meant that, since then, there have been no clubs from the area not only in Serie A, but Series B and C as well. The top three levels. To be fair with Brasilia, it didn't even exist until 1960. Football developed there just like it did elsewhere in Brasil, from grassroots, there were no
big investments in sport as it was not at all a priority there back then. Its earliest clubs were basically formed by workers of the companies that built the
place and people who went to live in its satellite towns. It was only in 1976 that football became officially professional in the region, and they had to develop in a more competitive environment, as most of the rest of the country had a head start of 50+ years over them.
I would guess that the people of Brasilia like their football as much as everyone
else in the country. But a sizeable share of its residents work in civil service
(federal and local), lots of which were born elsewhere and had to move there for
professional reasons. So, they usually bring along with them their original club
allegiances, wherever it is that they come from. It's difficult for local clubs
to compete with that.
It does have a very nice stadium, brought up to "FIFA Standard" for 2014, but that is all, really. Estadio Nacional Mane Garrincha fills when big teams from other cities play in it. Usually, the aggregate attendance of all games in Campeonato Brasiliense barely matches the stadium's full capacity.
Of course, these are just my perceptions. One would naturally expect that the fourth biggest metropolitan area in Brasil and the country's highest GDP per capita would do better than not even showing up to Serie C for over 10 years now... There might be other reasons for their prolonged absence in top-flight football in Brasil.
--
Ll|-o
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On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:50:35 PM UTC-4, Werner Pichler wrote:

And without actually wanting to raise the thorny capital issue, I can't help but notice
that both Jerusalem teams are flirting with relegation this season in the Israeli Premier League.

Even setting aside the thorny political issue, Jerusalem is the largest city in Israel by far in terms of population (which is of course a consequence of the thorny political issues). Now, the fact that one club in the city will not hire players representing about 35% of the city's population, and that a large chunk of the remaining 65% has no interest in football or any other sports whatsoever is another matter...
However, as far as I can tell, the last time a Jerusalem team was not in the top tier of the Israeli system was 1956-1957 (when Jerusalem was not the largest city in Israel). Beitar has established itself as a relatively big club in the Israeli landscape since the early 1970s, but they did drop to the second tier twice: in 1979-80 they finished last, but in the same year Hapoel Jerusalem won the second tier and was promoted; and in 1990-1991. In the 1991-1992 season, Hapoel finished last and was relegated, while Beitar was promoted (and won the title the folloiwng year), so there has always been a Jerusalem representative in the top tier.
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On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 10:01:27 PM UTC-4, Ll|-o wrote:

MH escreveu:
[SNIP]

Again in Brazil there have been times (I am sure Lleo and Jesus will correct me if I am wrong; perhaps they have already posted about this) when Brasilia had no representatives in the top league. In fact it seems there are none right now

You are correct. In fact, this is the usual scenario, actually. Teams from the proper city of Brasilia only ever took part of the Brazilian league when participation was quota-based

Very interesting report as usual, but I think that Anders misspoke when he used the term "capital", as it is not infrequent that a country's capital is not the main cultural/economic hub of the country. Washington DC did not have a major league baseball franchise between 1971 and 2004.
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Quoting Werner Pichler in rec.sport.soccer:

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:52:15 AM UTC+2, anders t wrote:

For the first time ever, since the start of icehockey leagues in Sweden in >> the 1920s, Stockholm (the COUNTY, 2.4 million, ~23% of Sweden total), will >> not have representation in the top flight next season.

I see it's already been quite close in the past (e.g. 2006/07 or 2008/09).
Is Stockholm historically less of a hockey hotbed than other parts of the country?

No. In fact ALL 8 teams in the first league 1922/23 were from Stockholm.
Hockey spread out gradually from Stockholm.

Djurgordens IF 16 mEsterskap Stockholm
BrynEs IF 13 mEsterskap
FErjestads BK 9 mEsterskap
IK G%ta 9 mEsterskap Stockholm
Hammarby IF 8 mEsterskap Stockholm
AIK 7 mEsterskap Stockholm (County)
S%dertElje SK 7 mEsterskap Stockholm (County)
Fr%lunda HC 5 mEsterskap
HV 71 5 mEsterskap
Leksands IF 4 mEsterskap
Skellefteo AIK 3 mEsterskap
VExj% Lakers HC 3 mEsterskap
MODO Hockey 2 mEsterskap
Malm% IF 2 mEsterskap
GEvle GIK 1 mEsterskap
IF Bj%rkl%ven 1 mEsterskap
Luleo HF 1 mEsterskap

* Championship abandoned 1939, 1949, 1952, 2020.

So, 47 out of 96 championships to Stockholm County (49%), but the last time
was 2001 (DIF).

Djurgordens IF, the last stand, was relegated yesterday after losing the 7 >> games playout series against Timro IK by 0-4.

Are there any equivalents in the world where one of the two major team
sports in a country has no representation from the capital area?

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On 2022-04-03 18:17, Futbolmetrix wrote:

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 5:40:29 PM UTC-4, MH wrote:

On 2022-04-03 01:52, anders t wrote:

There was a long period when Ottawa did not have a CFL team, between the
Roughriders and the RedBlacks.

If you start looking at other sports, then it must be rather common. Italy has a pretty serious professional volleyball league (probably the best league in the world?), but Rome is very rarely represented.

Anders said the top two sports which for Canada I assume are hockey NHL,
(in which we have 7 teams)and CFL football 8 teams. CFL average
attendance is higher than Ligue 1 and MLS.

But this gets complicated for other countries for sure. What is the
second sport in Scotland ? It might be rugby union, but there are only
2 teams in a fully professional league.

In Australia ? I suspect cricket is by far the most popular, but which
of AFL and NRL actually comes second in the hearts and minds of
Australians is not clear to me. Might be AFL in Victoria, and NRL in Queensland and NSW.

In Germany I truly do not know if Handball, Eishockey, or something else
comes second among team sports
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On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 7:23:57 PM UTC+2, MH wrote:

On 2022-04-03 18:17, Futbolmetrix wrote:

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 5:40:29 PM UTC-4, MH wrote:

On 2022-04-03 01:52, anders t wrote:

There was a long period when Ottawa did not have a CFL team, between the >> Roughriders and the RedBlacks.

If you start looking at other sports, then it must be rather common. Italy has a pretty serious professional volleyball league (probably the best league in the world?), but Rome is very rarely represented.

Anders said the top two sports which for Canada I assume are hockey NHL,
(in which we have 7 teams)and CFL football 8 teams. CFL average
attendance is higher than Ligue 1 and MLS.

But this gets complicated for other countries for sure. What is the
second sport in Scotland ? It might be rugby union, but there are only
2 teams in a fully professional league.

Speaking of rugby, the Twickenham-based Harlequins got relegated from the 2004-05 Rugby
Premiership, so in 2005-06 there was no team from Greater London in the league. (Funnily enough, the London Irish played in Reading, and the London Wasps in Wycombe;
also, back then the Saracens played in Watford).

In Australia ? I suspect cricket is by far the most popular, but which
of AFL and NRL actually comes second in the hearts and minds of
Australians is not clear to me. Might be AFL in Victoria, and NRL in Queensland and NSW.

In Germany I truly do not know if Handball, Eishockey, or something else comes second among team sports

In term of attendances it's hockey, in term of overall interest probably handball.

In Austria, it's hockey (but with quite prominent regional differences).

Ciao,
Werner
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On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 7:19:55 PM UTC+2, anders t wrote:

Quoting Werner Pichler in rec.sport.soccer:

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:52:15 AM UTC+2, anders t wrote:

For the first time ever, since the start of icehockey leagues in Sweden in
the 1920s, Stockholm (the COUNTY, 2.4 million, ~23% of Sweden total), will
not have representation in the top flight next season.

I see it's already been quite close in the past (e.g. 2006/07 or 2008/09). >Is Stockholm historically less of a hockey hotbed than other parts of the country?

No. In fact ALL 8 teams in the first league 1922/23 were from Stockholm. Hockey spread out gradually from Stockholm.

I see. So it's like England and football.
But small cities must also have been quite successful through the years:

Djurg|Nrdens IF 16 m|nsterskap Stockholm
Bryn|ns IF 13 m|nsterskap

G|nvle, 75.000 (#14 in Sweden)

F|nrjestads BK 9 m|nsterskap

Karlstad, 65.000 (#20)

IK G||ta 9 m|nsterskap Stockholm
Hammarby IF 8 m|nsterskap Stockholm
AIK 7 m|nsterskap Stockholm (County)
S||dert|nlje SK 7 m|nsterskap Stockholm (County)
Fr||lunda HC 5 m|nsterskap
HV 71 5 m|nsterskap

J||nk||ping, 100.000 (#10)

Leksands IF 4 m|nsterskap

Middle of nowhere, 6.000

Skellefte|N AIK 3 m|nsterskap

Way up north, 37.000 (#34)

V|nxj|| Lakers HC 3 m|nsterskap

V|nxj||, 66.000 (#18)

MODO Hockey 2 m|nsterskap

|urnsk||ldsvik, 33.000 (#40)

Malm|| IF 2 m|nsterskap
G|nvle GIK 1 m|nsterskap
IF Bj||rkl||ven 1 m|nsterskap
Lule|N HF 1 m|nsterskap

Southern cities appear severely underrepresented. (Fr||lunda/G||teborg 5, Malm|| 2, and that's it?)
Well, R||gle might add one to the list this year.

* Championship abandoned 1939, 1949, 1952, 2020.

So, 47 out of 96 championships to Stockholm County (49%), but the last time was 2001 (DIF).

There is an even more pronounced rural dimension to the game in Switzerland where Davos are far and
away the historically most successful team (although Bern have been better in the modern era).
And while they never won the Swiss title, Ambr|4-Piotta - continuous presence in the Swiss top division
since 1985 - epitomise hockey small team ethics. Ambr|4 and Piotta are two Ticino villages with a combined
population of about 500, and a (often sold out) venue counting 6,500 seats. Ciao,
Werner
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Apr*s m+re roflexion, Futbolmetrix a ocrit :

but in the
same year Red Star gained promotion, so the capital's
representation was preserved.

Technically, Red Star is a club of Saint-Ouen, near Paris. Not
from Paris in proper.

--
Ixion
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