• Can FIA stewards ban the Mercedes ---

    From bra@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sat Jun 11 09:31:35 2022
    --- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.

    Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From bra@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sat Jun 11 12:34:39 2022
    On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:31:36 AM UTC-7, bra wrote:
    --- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.

    Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
    Latest, June 11,
    'George Russell has doubled down on his calls for Formula 1 to address the rCLsafety limitationrCY in its new-design 2022 cars, declaring itrCOs only a matter of time before the chassis bouncing phenomenon, also known as porpoising, results in a significant crash.'
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From XYXPDQ@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sat Jun 11 17:31:38 2022
    On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 12:34:40 PM UTC-7, bra wrote:
    On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:31:36 AM UTC-7, bra wrote:
    --- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.

    Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
    Latest, June 11,

    'George Russell has doubled down on his calls for Formula 1 to address the rCLsafety limitationrCY in its new-design 2022 cars, declaring itrCOs only a matter of time before the chassis bouncing phenomenon, also known as porpoising, results in a significant crash.'
    Merc messed up bad so drag everyone else down with you.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Bigbird@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Jun 12 06:44:15 2022
    XYXPDQ wrote:

    On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 12:34:40 PM UTC-7, bra wrote:
    On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:31:36 AM UTC-7, bra wrote:
    --- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes,
    the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the
    car, and potentially to the rest of the field.

    Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
    Latest, June 11,

    'George Russell has doubled down on his calls for Formula 1 to
    address the rCLsafety limitationrCY in its new-design 2022 cars,
    declaring itrCOs only a matter of time before the chassis bouncing phenomenon, also known as porpoising, results in a significant
    crash.'


    Merc messed up bad so drag everyone else down with you.

    Nonsense. The teams designed the cars, not F1, so it is up to the teams
    to address safety concerns of their designs. If Russell thinks his and
    other teams need some regs to make them limit the problem then you need
    just two things. A manner of measuring the effect and a regulation
    defining "safe" limits. Any team can change their setup to limit
    porpoising they will just be slower. Of course this would write off the
    season for some teams and promote others.

    --
    Bozo Bin
    Alan Baker
    Texasgate
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  • From Alan LeHun@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Jun 12 13:04:06 2022
    In article <bfd525ee-90c3-4033-8cbc-4b059eb4a6e8n@googlegroups.com>, brafield@hotmail.com says...

    --- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.

    Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?

    The Ferrari porpoises just as much, doesn't it?



    --
    Alan LeHun
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  • From Geoff May@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Jun 12 13:47:31 2022
    On 12/06/2022 13:04, Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <bfd525ee-90c3-4033-8cbc-4b059eb4a6e8n@googlegroups.com>, brafield@hotmail.com says...

    --- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.

    Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?

    The Ferrari porpoises just as much, doesn't it?

    It definitely breaks more.

    Cheers

    Geoff
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  • From bra@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Jun 12 09:33:02 2022
    On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:47:33 AM UTC-7, Geoff May wrote:
    On 12/06/2022 13:04, Alan LeHun wrote:
    In article <bfd525ee-90c3-4033...@googlegroups.com>,
    braf...@hotmail.com says...

    --- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.

    Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?

    The Ferrari porpoises just as much, doesn't it?
    It definitely breaks more.

    Cheers

    Geoff
    Guardian today: " the drivers were questioning the bouncing phenomenon, not exclusive to Mercedes, and which, they fear, could cause long-term physical damage."
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  • From texas gate@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Jun 12 18:10:56 2022
    On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 1:34:40 PM UTC-6, bra wrote:
    On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:31:36 AM UTC-7, bra wrote:
    --- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.

    Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
    Latest, June 11,

    'George Russell has doubled down on his calls for Formula 1 to address the rCLsafety limitationrCY in its new-design 2022 cars, declaring itrCOs only a matter of time before the chassis bouncing phenomenon, also known as porpoising, results in a significant crash.'
    Talk of F1 intervening soon.
    Increasing ride height for all.
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    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From News@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Jun 13 09:02:37 2022
    On 6/11/2022 8:31 PM, XYXPDQ wrote:
    On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 12:34:40 PM UTC-7, bra wrote:
    On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:31:36 AM UTC-7, bra wrote:
    --- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.

    Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
    Latest, June 11,

    'George Russell has doubled down on his calls for Formula 1 to address the rCLsafety limitationrCY in its new-design 2022 cars, declaring itrCOs only a matter of time before the chassis bouncing phenomenon, also known as porpoising, results in a significant crash.'


    Merc messed up bad so drag everyone else down with you.


    CFD hell.
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  • From bra@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Jun 13 09:22:08 2022
    On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 6:02:39 AM UTC-7, News wrote:

    CFD hell.

    Yes.
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  • From Matt Larkin@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Jun 14 00:50:44 2022
    On Saturday, 11 June 2022 at 17:31:36 UTC+1, bra wrote:
    --- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.

    Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
    It's definitely an unusual situation.

    But Russell and Hamilton have finished all of the races this year.

    They've not crashed into anyone, they've not made mistakes due
    to fatigue that have caused issues, their suspension hasn't
    fractured under load etc.

    Or is the argument that it is an accident "waiting to happen"?

    Has there ever been a car designed in the past which was so
    much of a physical challenge to drive at it's optimal speed?
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  • From michael...@yahoo.co.uk@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Jun 14 12:57:19 2022
    I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Jun 14 16:22:39 2022
    On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
    I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?

    I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed?

    That might be problematic.

    Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>

    In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
    wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
    chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was
    experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>

    It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is
    moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>

    And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
    bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had introduced.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From michael...@yahoo.co.uk@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Jun 15 03:39:39 2022
    On Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 00:22:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
    On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
    I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?
    I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed?

    That might be problematic.


    True, there's not much room with the driver already pretty much sitting on the ground.

    Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>

    In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
    wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
    chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>

    It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>

    And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
    bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had
    introduced.

    Chapman was a genius.

    I hope the FIA hold firm and tell the teams it's their problem.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From build@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Jun 15 07:50:47 2022
    On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 9:22:44 AM UTC+10, Alan wrote:
    On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael wrote:
    I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?
    I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed?

    That might be problematic.

    Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>

    In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
    wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
    chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>

    It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>

    And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
    bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had introduced.

    In that case the driver was not suspended from the chassis though. I presume you know why ???
    Why do we prefer a 'stiff' car rather than a 'soft' car ???
    Can you imagine not being directly connected to the suspension and the resulting "feel" of the tyre ???
    Why do they removed the seats from production cars and bolt in race seats directly to the chassis?
    Why is it that I've never seen a suspended seat in any racecar ?
    Let me know if you can find one.
    Why is it that we go to great lengths to mould ourselves into the seat and connect that seat directly to the chassis and then strap ourselves in really, really tightly. so we "feel" every tiny, teeny pebble in the pavement ???

    Go back to the finish at Baku and watch George get out of the car.
    Than watch Lewis.
    Do you see a difference ?
    Food for thought.

    build
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From build@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Jun 15 07:55:06 2022
    On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 8:39:40 PM UTC+10, michael wrote:
    On Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 00:22:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
    On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael.. wrote:
    I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?
    I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed?

    That might be problematic.

    True, there's not much room with the driver already pretty much sitting on the ground.
    Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>

    In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
    wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>

    It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>

    And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had
    introduced.
    Chapman was a genius.

    I hope the FIA hold firm and tell the teams it's their problem.

    Who watched the Baku post race stuff???
    Did other drivers complain ???
    If so which drivers ???
    thanks in anticipation,
    build
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    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From News@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Jun 15 11:25:06 2022
    On 6/15/2022 10:50 AM, build wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 9:22:44 AM UTC+10, Alan wrote:
    On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael wrote:
    I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?
    I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed?

    That might be problematic.

    Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>

    In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
    wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs
    entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
    chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was
    experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>

    It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is
    moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>

    And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
    bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road
    surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had introduced.

    In that case the driver was not suspended from the chassis though. I presume you know why ???
    Why do we prefer a 'stiff' car rather than a 'soft' car ???
    Can you imagine not being directly connected to the suspension and the resulting "feel" of the tyre ???
    Why do they removed the seats from production cars and bolt in race seats directly to the chassis?
    Why is it that I've never seen a suspended seat in any racecar ?
    Let me know if you can find one.
    Why is it that we go to great lengths to mould ourselves into the seat and connect that seat directly to the chassis and then strap ourselves in really, really tightly. so we "feel" every tiny, teeny pebble in the pavement ???

    Go back to the finish at Baku and watch George get out of the car.
    Than watch Lewis.
    Do you see a difference ?
    Food for thought.

    build

    That will continue until a driver fails on course or must be extracted
    at the finish.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From build@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Jun 15 09:22:11 2022
    On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 1:25:09 AM UTC+10, News wrote:
    On 6/15/2022 10:50 AM, build wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 9:22:44 AM UTC+10, Alan wrote:
    On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael wrote:
    I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?
    I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed? >>
    That might be problematic.

    Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>

    In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
    wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs >> entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
    chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was
    experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>

    It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is >> moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>

    And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
    bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road >> surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had introduced.

    In that case the driver was not suspended from the chassis though. I presume you know why ???
    Why do we prefer a 'stiff' car rather than a 'soft' car ???
    Can you imagine not being directly connected to the suspension and the resulting "feel" of the tyre ???
    Why do they removed the seats from production cars and bolt in race seats directly to the chassis?
    Why is it that I've never seen a suspended seat in any racecar ?
    Let me know if you can find one.
    Why is it that we go to great lengths to mould ourselves into the seat and connect that seat directly to the chassis and then strap ourselves in really, really tightly. so we "feel" every tiny, teeny pebble in the pavement ???

    Go back to the finish at Baku and watch George get out of the car.
    Than watch Lewis.
    Do you see a difference ?
    Food for thought.

    build
    That will continue until a driver fails on course or must be extracted
    at the finish.

    That's happened before. Particularly the early eighties Ground Effect cars, they were violently bumpy. It was visible even in very low resolution TV's. I recall a bloke saying "Someone should invent suspension and give the drivers bones a rest."

    Did you watch George bound out of the car and dance away? He looked like he was suffering (note that is sarcasm).
    I'll watch a few post race interviews on Friday. I'll bet the drivers making the most noise about the problem will be those who are finishing behind their team mates atm.
    So, Lewis, Pierre, Dan, Esteban, Nic and Lance to name some of the obvious candidates. So what the others say will be closer to reality. i.e, they don't need excuses. Max, Checo, George, Seb, Nando, Lando, Valtteri, Alex, Yuki, KMag, Charles.
    I'm now curious to see them :-)
    build
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  • From XYXPDQ@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Jun 15 10:33:09 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 12:57:21 PM UTC-7, michael...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
    I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?

    Offshore powerboat racing uses full suspension seats but they have way more room and weight isn't nearly as critical. It's an interesting idea but I don't see how it could be packaged in an F1 car.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From News@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Jun 15 14:27:23 2022
    On 6/15/2022 12:22 PM, build wrote:
    On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 1:25:09 AM UTC+10, News wrote:
    On 6/15/2022 10:50 AM, build wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 9:22:44 AM UTC+10, Alan wrote:
    On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael wrote:
    I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?
    I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed? >>>>
    That might be problematic.

    Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>

    In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
    wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs >>>> entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
    chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was
    experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>

    It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is >>>> moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>

    And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
    bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road >>>> surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had introduced.

    In that case the driver was not suspended from the chassis though. I presume you know why ???
    Why do we prefer a 'stiff' car rather than a 'soft' car ???
    Can you imagine not being directly connected to the suspension and the resulting "feel" of the tyre ???
    Why do they removed the seats from production cars and bolt in race seats directly to the chassis?
    Why is it that I've never seen a suspended seat in any racecar ?
    Let me know if you can find one.
    Why is it that we go to great lengths to mould ourselves into the seat and connect that seat directly to the chassis and then strap ourselves in really, really tightly. so we "feel" every tiny, teeny pebble in the pavement ???

    Go back to the finish at Baku and watch George get out of the car.
    Than watch Lewis.
    Do you see a difference ?
    Food for thought.

    build
    That will continue until a driver fails on course or must be extracted
    at the finish.

    That's happened before. Particularly the early eighties Ground Effect cars, they were violently bumpy. It was visible even in very low resolution TV's. I recall a bloke saying "Someone should invent suspension and give the drivers bones a rest."

    Did you watch George bound out of the car and dance away? He looked like he was suffering (note that is sarcasm).
    I'll watch a few post race interviews on Friday. I'll bet the drivers making the most noise about the problem will be those who are finishing behind their team mates atm.
    So, Lewis, Pierre, Dan, Esteban, Nic and Lance to name some of the obvious candidates. So what the others say will be closer to reality. i.e, they don't need excuses. Max, Checo, George, Seb, Nando, Lando, Valtteri, Alex, Yuki, KMag, Charles.
    I'm now curious to see them :-)
    build


    And if not the bumps, or the failing track surface, then the heat.

    Nigel on pole in the brutal Dallas inaugural, 1984, classified 6th:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFEPMb7IP6Q
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  • From Bigbird@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Jun 15 22:30:13 2022
    build wrote:

    Did you watch George bound out of the car and dance away? He looked
    like he was suffering (note that is sarcasm).

    You heard his complaints earlier in the weekend though? ( also sarcasm,
    of course you didn't)

    So George (58 starts) coped better than Lewis (296 starts) and this
    shocks your dumb ass. (clue in the last two words)

    --
    Bozo Bin
    Alan Baker
    Texasgate
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  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Thu Jun 16 14:34:56 2022
    On 16/06/2022 10:30 am, Bigbird wrote:
    build wrote:

    Did you watch George bound out of the car and dance away? He looked
    like he was suffering (note that is sarcasm).

    You heard his complaints earlier in the weekend though? ( also sarcasm,
    of course you didn't)

    So George (58 starts) coped better than Lewis (296 starts) and this
    shocks your dumb ass. (clue in the last two words)


    You missed the bit about the cars having some significant difference, presumably relating to the ride ?

    geoff
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  • From Alan@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Jun 15 21:37:51 2022
    On 2022-06-15 07:50, build wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 9:22:44 AM UTC+10, Alan wrote:
    On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael wrote:
    I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?
    I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed?

    That might be problematic.

    Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>

    In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
    wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs
    entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
    chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was
    experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>

    It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is
    moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>

    And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
    bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road
    surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had introduced.

    In that case the driver was not suspended from the chassis though. I presume you know why ???

    Yes. Because the conventional chassis could be much softer that was
    typical and is typical...

    ...because the conventional chassis didn't carry the aerodynamic loads.

    Why do we prefer a 'stiff' car rather than a 'soft' car ???

    Before you ask "why" you should first ask "if".

    Can you imagine not being directly connected to the suspension and the resulting "feel" of the tyre ???

    In what car are you imagine this is true.

    Why do they removed the seats from production cars and bolt in race seats directly to the chassis?

    Safety.

    Why is it that I've never seen a suspended seat in any racecar ?
    Let me know if you can find one.
    Why is it that we go to great lengths to mould ourselves into the seat and connect that seat directly to the chassis and then strap ourselves in really, really tightly. so we "feel" every tiny, teeny pebble in the pavement ???

    Go back to the finish at Baku and watch George get out of the car.
    Than watch Lewis.
    Do you see a difference ?
    Food for thought.

    Yes.

    Their cars were clearly setup very differently.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Jun 15 21:38:51 2022
    On 2022-06-15 15:30, Bigbird wrote:
    build wrote:

    Did you watch George bound out of the car and dance away? He looked
    like he was suffering (note that is sarcasm).

    You heard his complaints earlier in the weekend though? ( also sarcasm,
    of course you didn't)

    So George (58 starts) coped better than Lewis (296 starts) and this
    shocks your dumb ass. (clue in the last two words)


    THE TWO MERCEDES CARS HAD DIFFERENT SETUPS!
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From texas gate@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Thu Jun 16 08:11:51 2022
    On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 10:38:53 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

    THE TWO MERCEDES CARS HAD DIFFERENT SETUPS!

    FUCK YOU
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)