I thought Mercedes might be sandbagging...
...but weirdly, it looks like their problem might be engine power...
...and I don't think anyone really expected that.
Just look at the results from an engine perspective:
1. Ferrari
2. Red Bull / Honda
3. Ferrari
4. Red Bull / Honda
5. Mercedes
6. Ferrari
7. Ferrari
8. Renault
9. Mercedes
10. Red Bull / Honda
Alan wrote:
I thought Mercedes might be sandbagging...
...but weirdly, it looks like their problem might be engine power...
...and I don't think anyone really expected that.
Just look at the results from an engine perspective:
1. Ferrari
2. Red Bull / Honda
3. Ferrari
4. Red Bull / Honda
5. Mercedes
6. Ferrari
7. Ferrari
8. Renault
9. Mercedes
10. Red Bull / Honda
The full picture highlights possible Mercedes PT weakness
11 RENAULT
12 FERRARI
13 MERCEDES
14 MERCEDES
15 FERRARI
16 RBPT
17 MERCEDES
18 MERCEDES
19 MERCEDES
20 MERCEDES
Average position
FERRARI 7.3
RBPT 8.0
RENAULT 9.5
MERCEDES 14.4
Alan wrote:
I thought Mercedes might be sandbagging...
...but weirdly, it looks like their problem might be engine power...
...and I don't think anyone really expected that.
Just look at the results from an engine perspective:
1. Ferrari
2. Red Bull / Honda
3. Ferrari
4. Red Bull / Honda
5. Mercedes
6. Ferrari
7. Ferrari
8. Renault
9. Mercedes
10. Red Bull / Honda
The full picture highlights possible Mercedes PT weakness
11 RENAULT
12 FERRARI
13 MERCEDES
14 MERCEDES
15 FERRARI
16 RBPT
17 MERCEDES
18 MERCEDES
19 MERCEDES
20 MERCEDES
Average position
FERRARI 7.3
RBPT 8.0
RENAULT 9.5
MERCEDES 14.4
"Aerodynamics Are For People Who Can't Build Engines" - Enzo Ferrari
I wonder if these rules changes are driving the sport back into an engine-focused formula.
There was something special about the cars before all the wings and foo-foo bits started showing up. Clean and simple.
I thought Mercedes might be sandbagging...
Alan wrote:
I thought Mercedes might be sandbagging...
...but weirdly, it looks like their problem might be engine power...
...and I don't think anyone really expected that.
Just look at the results from an engine perspective:
1. Ferrari
2. Red Bull / Honda
3. Ferrari
4. Red Bull / Honda
5. Mercedes
6. Ferrari
7. Ferrari
8. Renault
9. Mercedes
10. Red Bull / Honda
The full picture highlights possible Mercedes PT weakness
11 RENAULT
12 FERRARI
13 MERCEDES
14 MERCEDES
15 FERRARI
16 RBPT
17 MERCEDES
18 MERCEDES
19 MERCEDES
20 MERCEDES
Average position
FERRARI 7.3
RBPT 8.0
RENAULT 9.5
MERCEDES 14.4
Now in qually we can see that they're getting out of the corners faster
than cars with other PUs. I guess the question needs to be asked is have
the other manufacturers missed a trick and are Ferrari getting around
the 'no traction control' rule with clever electronics or something? If
so is it legal? I strongly doubt that the FIA want even more media
attention so soon due to rule-bending so maybe Ferrari have considered
that when designing this PU?
Either that or, once the Masi hubbub has died down a bit we'll see investigations into the Italian PU.
Il 20/03/2022 03:14, ~misfit~ ha scritto:No, But Ferraris do have form in that regard (fuel flow shenanigans & oild burning as recent examples), then again I dont think any team is exactly squeaky clean they all try to push it as far as they can that is F1
Now in qually we can see that they're getting out of the corners faster
than cars with other PUs. I guess the question needs to be asked is
have the other manufacturers missed a trick and are Ferrari getting
around the 'no traction control' rule with clever electronics or
something? If so is it legal? I strongly doubt that the FIA want even
more media attention so soon due to rule-bending so maybe Ferrari have
considered that when designing this PU?
Only MB can build good PU within the rules, right? (Honda sometimes
makes good PU, sometimes makes F2 engines......).
Everyone else can build good PUs only by breaking the rules?
Either that or, once the Masi hubbub has died down a bit we'll see investigations into the Italian PU.
Maybe, if MB can find a way more advanced GPS data analysis than the
first time..........
Or, better, another "guy" like mr. Sassi. ;-)
S
During testing there were comments about about how, coming out of low speed corners the Ferrari PUs
were 'whining' a lot more than other PUs, seemingly using more electrical power than ICE power - or
maybe using it differently.
Now in qually we can see that they're getting out of the corners faster than cars with other PUs. I
guess the question needs to be asked is have the other manufacturers missed a trick and are Ferrari
getting around the 'no traction control' rule with clever electronics or something? If so is it
legal? I strongly doubt that the FIA want even more media attention so soon due to rule-bending so
maybe Ferrari have considered that when designing this PU?
As the PUs are now locked in until the end of 2025 (other than fixes for reliability) Ferrari could
be starting a period of dominance. Either that or, once the Masi hubbub has died down a bit we'll
see investigations into the Italian PU.
No, But Ferraris do have form in that regard (fuel flow shenanigans & oild burning as recent examples), then again I dont think any team is exactly squeaky clean they all try to push it as far as they can that is F1
On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:22:57 +0100, Slang wrote:
Il 20/03/2022 03:14, ~misfit~ ha scritto:
Now in qually we can see that they're getting out of the corners faster
than cars with other PUs. I guess the question needs to be asked is
have the other manufacturers missed a trick and are Ferrari getting
around the 'no traction control' rule with clever electronics or
something? If so is it legal? I strongly doubt that the FIA want even
more media attention so soon due to rule-bending so maybe Ferrari have
considered that when designing this PU?
Only MB can build good PU within the rules, right? (Honda sometimes
makes good PU, sometimes makes F2 engines......).
Everyone else can build good PUs only by breaking the rules?
No, But Ferraris do have form in that regard (fuel flow shenanigans & oild burning as recent examples), then again I dont think any team is exactly squeaky clean they all try to push it as far as they can that is F1
Not to mention that 'double battery' thing from a few years ago (used to get around how much energy
could be pulled from a battery at any one time) that didn't really make it into the light of day,
the FIA just told Ferrari to change it.
In recent memory every time Ferrari have made a leap in power output it's been followed by ... well
silence from the FIA but then Ferrari suddenly slowing down considerably some months later. It's
just got to the stage where I (and quite a few others) expect it now and they only have themselves
to blame.
In recent memory
On 22/03/2022 7:42 am, alister wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:22:57 +0100, Slang wrote:
Il 20/03/2022 03:14, ~misfit~ ha scritto:
Now in qually we can see that they're getting out of the corners faster >>>> than cars with other PUs. I guess the question needs to be asked is
have the other manufacturers missed a trick and are Ferrari getting
around the 'no traction control' rule with clever electronics or
something? If so is it legal? I strongly doubt that the FIA want even
more media attention so soon due to rule-bending so maybe Ferrari have >>>> considered that when designing this PU?
Only MB can build good PU within the rules, right? (Honda sometimes
makes good PU, sometimes makes F2 engines......).
Everyone else can build good PUs only by breaking the rules?
No, But Ferraris do have form in that regard (fuel flow shenanigans & oild >> burning as recent examples), then again I dont think any team is exactly
squeaky clean they all try to push it as far as they can that is F1
Not to mention that 'double battery' thing from a few years ago (used to get around how much energy
could be pulled from a battery at any one time) that didn't really make it into the light of day,
the FIA just told Ferrari to change it.
In recent memory every time Ferrari have made a leap in power output it's been followed by ... well
silence from the FIA but then Ferrari suddenly slowing down considerably some months later. It's
just got to the stage where I (and quite a few others) expect it now and they only have themselves
to blame.
On 22/03/2022 5:55 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
On 22/03/2022 7:42 am, alister wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:22:57 +0100, Slang wrote:
Il 20/03/2022 03:14, ~misfit~ ha scritto:No, But Ferraris do have form in that regard (fuel flow shenanigans &
Now in qually we can see that they're getting out of the corners
faster
than cars with other PUs. I guess the question needs to be asked is
have the other manufacturers missed a trick and are Ferrari getting
around the 'no traction control' rule with clever electronics or
something? If so is it legal? I strongly doubt that the FIA want even >>>>> more media attention so soon due to rule-bending so maybe Ferrari have >>>>> considered that when designing this PU?
Only MB can build good PU within the rules, right? (Honda sometimes
makes good PU, sometimes makes F2 engines......).
Everyone else can build good PUs only by breaking the rules?
oild
burning as recent examples), then again I dont think any team is exactly >>> squeaky clean they all try to push it as far as they can that is F1
Not to mention that 'double battery' thing from a few years ago (used
to get around how much energy could be pulled from a battery at any
one time) that didn't really make it into the light of day, the FIA
just told Ferrari to change it.
In recent memory every time Ferrari have made a leap in power output
it's been followed by ... well silence from the FIA but then Ferrari
suddenly slowing down considerably some months later. It's just got to
the stage where I (and quite a few others) expect it now and they only
have themselves to blame.
In this 50 second video you can see the battery State of Charge (SOC)
line in the bottom of Leclerc's steering wheel during his battle with Verstappen. See how quickly the battery gets enough charge for him to
deploy on the next straight? One braking area and he's got a fair chunk
of amps available (out of the red at least).
<https://youtu.be/pIrHA0yttBQ>
It would be interesting to know if the other teams are getting this much energy recovery in a single braking zone.
In this 50 second video you can see the battery State of Charge (SOC)
line in the bottom of Leclerc's steering wheel during his battle with Verstappen. See how quickly the battery gets enough charge for him to
deploy on the next straight? One braking area and he's got a fair chunk
of amps available (out of the red at least).
<https://youtu.be/pIrHA0yttBQ>
It would be interesting to know if the other teams are getting this much energy recovery in a single braking zone.
On 22/03/2022 6:17 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
On 22/03/2022 5:55 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
On 22/03/2022 7:42 am, alister wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:22:57 +0100, Slang wrote:
Il 20/03/2022 03:14, ~misfit~ ha scritto:No, But Ferraris do have form in that regard (fuel flow shenanigans & oild >>>> burning as recent examples), then again I dont think any team is exactly >>>> squeaky clean they all try to push it as far as they can that is F1
Now in qually we can see that they're getting out of the corners faster >>>>>> than cars with other PUs. I guess the question needs to be asked is >>>>>> have the other manufacturers missed a trick and are Ferrari getting >>>>>> around the 'no traction control' rule with clever electronics or
something? If so is it legal? I strongly doubt that the FIA want even >>>>>> more media attention so soon due to rule-bending so maybe Ferrari have >>>>>> considered that when designing this PU?
Only MB can build good PU within the rules, right? (Honda sometimes
makes good PU, sometimes makes F2 engines......).
Everyone else can build good PUs only by breaking the rules?
Not to mention that 'double battery' thing from a few years ago (used to get around how much
energy could be pulled from a battery at any one time) that didn't really make it into the light
of day, the FIA just told Ferrari to change it.
In recent memory every time Ferrari have made a leap in power output it's been followed by ...
well silence from the FIA but then Ferrari suddenly slowing down considerably some months later.
It's just got to the stage where I (and quite a few others) expect it now and they only have
themselves to blame.
In this 50 second video you can see the battery State of Charge (SOC) line in the bottom of
Leclerc's steering wheel during his battle with Verstappen. See how quickly the battery gets
enough charge for him to deploy on the next straight? One braking area and he's got a fair chunk
of amps available (out of the red at least).
<https://youtu.be/pIrHA0yttBQ>
It would be interesting to know if the other teams are getting this much energy recovery in a
single braking zone.
So where do you think that the extra juice could come from?
Il 22/03/2022 09:17, ~misfit~ ha scritto:
In this 50 second video you can see the battery State of Charge (SOC) line in the bottom of
Leclerc's steering wheel during his battle with Verstappen. See how quickly the battery gets
enough charge for him to deploy on the next straight? One braking area and he's got a fair chunk
of amps available (out of the red at least).
<https://youtu.be/pIrHA0yttBQ>
Similar videos from other cars?
It would be interesting to know if the other teams are getting this much energy recovery in a
single braking zone.
Remember that Ferrari Hybrid system (and PU) is the newest among all teams. And i think that, after 2020, FIA keeps a special eye on Ferrari.
So where do you think that the extra juice could come from?
From the 2nd MGU-H and MGU-K hidden in Leclec pockets, of course.
But i think that MB GPS data could convince FIA to make another long visit in Maranello ;-)
S
The FIA already have access to all of the GPS data that the teams have.
On 22/03/2022 10:33 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 22/03/2022 6:17 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
On 22/03/2022 5:55 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
On 22/03/2022 7:42 am, alister wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:22:57 +0100, Slang wrote:
Il 20/03/2022 03:14, ~misfit~ ha scritto:No, But Ferraris do have form in that regard (fuel flow shenanigans >>>>> & oild
Now in qually we can see that they're getting out of the corners >>>>>>> faster
than cars with other PUs. I guess the question needs to be asked is >>>>>>> have the other manufacturers missed a trick and are Ferrari getting >>>>>>> around the 'no traction control' rule with clever electronics or >>>>>>> something? If so is it legal? I strongly doubt that the FIA want >>>>>>> even
more media attention so soon due to rule-bending so maybe Ferrari >>>>>>> have
considered that when designing this PU?
Only MB can build good PU within the rules, right? (Honda sometimes >>>>>> makes good PU, sometimes makes F2 engines......).
Everyone else can build good PUs only by breaking the rules?
burning as recent examples), then again I dont think any team is
exactly
squeaky clean they all try to push it as far as they can that is F1
Not to mention that 'double battery' thing from a few years ago
(used to get around how much energy could be pulled from a battery
at any one time) that didn't really make it into the light of day,
the FIA just told Ferrari to change it.
In recent memory every time Ferrari have made a leap in power output
it's been followed by ... well silence from the FIA but then Ferrari
suddenly slowing down considerably some months later. It's just got
to the stage where I (and quite a few others) expect it now and they
only have themselves to blame.
In this 50 second video you can see the battery State of Charge (SOC)
line in the bottom of Leclerc's steering wheel during his battle with
Verstappen. See how quickly the battery gets enough charge for him to
deploy on the next straight? One braking area and he's got a fair
chunk of amps available (out of the red at least).
<https://youtu.be/pIrHA0yttBQ>
It would be interesting to know if the other teams are getting this
much energy recovery in a single braking zone.
So where do you think that the extra juice could come from?
From the usual sources (MGU-H and K) but as far as I know there's a
limit on how much they can put into the battery (as in amps per second
or similar). <shrug> Maybe not any more, I've not read these particular rules for a while.
I'm not for a minute suggesting they have a second battery system /
parallel battery now like they used to. They wouldn't make that mistake again surely? Maybe they're just using 'supercapacitors' that can be
charged faster than Li-Ion cells.
On 22/03/2022 10:33 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 22/03/2022 6:17 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
On 22/03/2022 5:55 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
On 22/03/2022 7:42 am, alister wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:22:57 +0100, Slang wrote:
Il 20/03/2022 03:14, ~misfit~ ha scritto:No, But Ferraris do have form in that regard (fuel flow shenanigans >>>>> & oild
Now in qually we can see that they're getting out of the corners >>>>>>> faster
than cars with other PUs. I guess the question needs to be asked is >>>>>>> have the other manufacturers missed a trick and are Ferrari getting >>>>>>> around the 'no traction control' rule with clever electronics or >>>>>>> something? If so is it legal? I strongly doubt that the FIA want >>>>>>> even
more media attention so soon due to rule-bending so maybe Ferrari >>>>>>> have
considered that when designing this PU?
Only MB can build good PU within the rules, right? (Honda sometimes >>>>>> makes good PU, sometimes makes F2 engines......).
Everyone else can build good PUs only by breaking the rules?
burning as recent examples), then again I dont think any team is
exactly
squeaky clean they all try to push it as far as they can that is F1
Not to mention that 'double battery' thing from a few years ago
(used to get around how much energy could be pulled from a battery
at any one time) that didn't really make it into the light of day,
the FIA just told Ferrari to change it.
In recent memory every time Ferrari have made a leap in power output
it's been followed by ... well silence from the FIA but then Ferrari
suddenly slowing down considerably some months later. It's just got
to the stage where I (and quite a few others) expect it now and they
only have themselves to blame.
In this 50 second video you can see the battery State of Charge (SOC)
line in the bottom of Leclerc's steering wheel during his battle with
Verstappen. See how quickly the battery gets enough charge for him to
deploy on the next straight? One braking area and he's got a fair
chunk of amps available (out of the red at least).
<https://youtu.be/pIrHA0yttBQ>
It would be interesting to know if the other teams are getting this
much energy recovery in a single braking zone.
So where do you think that the extra juice could come from?
From the usual sources (MGU-H and K) but as far as I know there's a
limit on how much they can put into the battery (as in amps per second
or similar). <shrug> Maybe not any more, I've not read these particular rules for a while.
I'm not for a minute suggesting they have a second battery system /
parallel battery now like they used to. They wouldn't make that mistake again surely? Maybe they're just using 'supercapacitors' that can be
charged faster than Li-Ion cells.
From what I've read, they are using the same system as last year, it's supposed to be the only part of the engine that isn't new.
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