Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule 48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's favour but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that Liberty
and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car. Also that both organizations would like to see a change of champion after so many years
of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of sportsmanship
and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they just have to suck
it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in the last few laps it would have been as great a blow but they would have been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to be
too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and he has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail of
the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be made *after* the race.
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race
Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule
48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by
rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that
RB needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's
favour but I do believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that
Liberty and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one
that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car.
Also that both organizations would like to see a change of champion
after so many years of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the
result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of
sportsmanship and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they
just have to suck it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in
the last few laps it would have been as great a blow but they would
have been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to
be too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and
he has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside
F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a
race. The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every
detail of the race and their decisions should be final. Protests
should be made after the race.
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule 48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by rule 48.13,
which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB
needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's favour
but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that Liberty
and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car. Also that both organizations would like to see a change of champion after so many years
of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the
result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of sportsmanship
and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they just have to suck
it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in the last few laps it
would have been as great a blow but they would have been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to be
too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and he has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail of
the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be made
*after* the race.
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule 48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's favour but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that Liberty
and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car. Also that both organizations would like to see a change of champion after so many years
of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of sportsmanship
and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they just have to suck
it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in the last few laps it would have been as great a blow but they would have been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to be
too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and he has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail of
the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be made *after* the race.
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule 48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's favour but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that Liberty
and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car. Also that both organizations would like to see a change of champion after so many years
of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of sportsmanship
and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they just have to suck
it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in the last few laps it would have been as great a blow but they would have been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to be
too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and he has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail of
the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be made *after* the race.
On 15/12/2021 9:24 am, Sir Tim wrote:
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that
SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race
Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule
48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by
rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB
needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max >> the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's
favour but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that
Liberty and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one
that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car.
Also that both organizations would like to see a change of champion
after so many years of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the
result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of
sportsmanship and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they
just have to suck it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in the
last few laps it would have been as great a blow but they would have
been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to
be too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and
he has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail
of the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be
made *after* the race.
Agree in all but '1' - if the appeal was simply to acknowledge that an erroneous decision had been made.
I do not think HAM would actually accept the 'crown' even if the result
was overturned. He's bigger than that - unlike the WDC champ who was
crowing with delight with winning under the bizarre and patently unfair circumstances.
geoff
On 14/12/2021 20:24, Sir Tim wrote:
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that
SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race
Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule
48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by
rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB
needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max >> the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's
favour but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that
Liberty and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one
that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car.
Also that both organizations would like to see a change of champion
after so many years of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the
result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of
sportsmanship and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they
just have to suck it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in the
last few laps it would have been as great a blow but they would have
been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
I don't think Mercedes should stop any legal effort but they need to
make sure that they make it look like they are ensuring we never get a repeat.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to
be too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and
he has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
I feel they should have a fixed group of stewards who have an
enforceable rule book. Safety should remain with Masi but he should have
no control over breaches of the regulations. Only the stewards decide
that and their penalties need to be consistent across the year.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail
of the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be
made *after* the race.
This has already been decided by the FIA ... apparently: https://www.pitpass.com/71614/FIA-to-outlaw-in-race-lobbying-from-teams
Cheers
Geoff
On 15/12/2021 10:09 am, geoff wrote:
On 15/12/2021 9:24 am, Sir Tim wrote:
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion
that SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the
Race Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention
of rule 48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use
his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy
champion. Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner
admitted that RB needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's
favour but I do believe that foremost in his mind was the fact
that Liberty and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish,
and one that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind
the safety car. Also that both organizations would like to see a
change of champion after so many years of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn
the result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of sportsmanship and would only do them harm. Tough though it is
they just have to suck it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine
blown in the last few laps it would have been as great a blow
but they would have been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and
most egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him
(including the one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap
incident). He seems to be too easily swayed by representations
from the team principals and he has certainly lost the respect
of many fans, if not those inside F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a
race. The stewards have video which enables them to see almost
every detail of the race and their decisions should be final.
Protests should be made after the race.
Agree in all but '1' - if the appeal was simply to acknowledge that
an erroneous decision had been made.
I do not think HAM would actually accept the 'crown' even if the
result was overturned. He's bigger than that - unlike the WDC
champ who was crowing with delight with winning under the bizarre
and patently unfair circumstances.
geoff
If it were me, I would find my victory more than a little hollow.
geoff wrote:
On 15/12/2021 10:09 am, geoff wrote:
On 15/12/2021 9:24 am, Sir Tim wrote:
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion
that SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the
Race Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention
of rule 48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was
justified by rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use
his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy
champion. Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner
admitted that RB needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were
tantamount to handing Max the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's
favour but I do believe that foremost in his mind was the fact
that Liberty and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish,
and one that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind
the safety car. Also that both organizations would like to see a
change of champion after so many years of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn
the result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of
sportsmanship and would only do them harm. Tough though it is
they just have to suck it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine
blown in the last few laps it would have been as great a blow
but they would have been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and
most egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him
(including the one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap
incident). He seems to be too easily swayed by representations
from the team principals and he has certainly lost the respect
of many fans, if not those inside F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a
race. The stewards have video which enables them to see almost
every detail of the race and their decisions should be final.
Protests should be made after the race.
Agree in all but '1' - if the appeal was simply to acknowledge that
an erroneous decision had been made.
I do not think HAM would actually accept the 'crown' even if the
result was overturned. He's bigger than that - unlike the WDC
champ who was crowing with delight with winning under the bizarre
and patently unfair circumstances.
geoff
If it were me, I would find my victory more than a little hollow.
In his defence and as Trev claimed above I think most people accept
that either driver would have made a worthy champion. It was the RD
that handed them the trophy but you can't lay the blame on Max for
accepting it.
As for it feeling hollow, I don't think so, I'm sure he will find a way
of justifying it, whether Silverstone or some other DNF or decision
that he felt did not go his way. I don't think he will be resented by
anyone that matters for taking the title.
Max's career and popularity is ascending rapidly; the muck doesn't
stick. Diversification is more important to Lewis, with 7 WDC's he
doesn't need a tarnished one; his reputation on and off track is more important than that. If you have seen the amount of respect he has had
for the way he dealt with everything on Sunday... it's enough to make
Baker choke on his prejudice.
On 2021-12-14 3:49 PM, Geoff May wrote:
On 14/12/2021 20:24, Sir Tim wrote:
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that
SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race
Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule
48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by
rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that
RB needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing >>> Max the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's
favour but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that
Liberty and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one
that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car.
Also that both organizations would like to see a change of champion
after so many years of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the
result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of
sportsmanship and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they
just have to suck it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in
the last few laps it would have been as great a blow but they would
have been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
I don't think Mercedes should stop any legal effort but they need to
make sure that they make it look like they are ensuring we never get a
repeat.
I really don't know what to make of this situation. If Mercedes persists
in their appeal it doesn't look good with regard to their
"sportmanship". On the other hand, Masi's actions were so questionable
that *something* needs to be done about it. If Mercedes does not follow through with an appeal, it may just lead to further questionable
decisions down the road, so to speak. A crime unpunished, sort of thing.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to
be too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and
he has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
I feel they should have a fixed group of stewards who have an
enforceable rule book. Safety should remain with Masi but he should
have no control over breaches of the regulations. Only the stewards
decide that and their penalties need to be consistent across the year.
Further, it should be that the Race Director is limited to *only* safety issues. However, that still leaves room for decisions about red
flag/safety car/VSC open to the RD's interpretation and I see no way
around that. Perhaps one official calling for the safety car and another deciding when to end it.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a
race. The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every
detail of the race and their decisions should be final. Protests
should be made *after* the race.
This has already been decided by the FIA ... apparently:
https://www.pitpass.com/71614/FIA-to-outlaw-in-race-lobbying-from-teams
Cheers
Geoff
I would also add a 4th new rule to the mix: in the event of a safety
car, the cars in pitlane are to be under park ferme conditions and no
work AT ALL can be done. If there is a safety issue where a part wants changing, it can be done after the cars are released from the pitlane
and green flag racing has resumed. In other words, more or less the same time penalty would be incurred as if the safety issue was discovered
under green flag conditions.
I would also add a 4th new rule to the mix: in the event of a safety
car, the cars in pitlane are to be under park ferme conditions and no
work AT ALL can be done. If there is a safety issue where a part wants changing, it can be done after the cars are released from the pitlane
and green flag racing has resumed. In other words, more or less the same time penalty would be incurred as if the safety issue was discovered
under green flag conditions.
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule 48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's favour but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that Liberty
and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car. Also that both organizations would like to see a change of champion after so many years
of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of sportsmanship
and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they just have to suck
it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in the last few laps it would have been as great a blow but they would have been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to be
too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and he has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail of
the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be made *after* the race.
On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 20:24:25 +0000, Sir Tim wrote:
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that
SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race Director, >> Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule 48.12. The
authorities claim that this contravention was justified by rule 48.13,
which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB
needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max >> the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's favour
but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that Liberty
and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one that happened
whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car. Also that both
organizations would like to see a change of champion after so many years
of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the
result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of sportsmanship
and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they just have to suck
it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in the last few laps it
would have been as great a blow but they would have been able to say,
rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to be
too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and he has
certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail of
the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be made
*after* the race.
As someone who is totaly biased & wanted to see Ham clinch an 8th wdc.
but I would say I agree 100%
Changing the result on appeal would do more harm than good to the sport
& would be unjust on Max who has done nothing wrong.
The FIA now need to issue a statement something along the lines of
"Whilst the actions of Masi were in accordance with the rules * made in
good faith they were with the benefit of hindsight not the best & it is
with regret that we accept Masi's resignation.
On 2021-12-14 12:24 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that
SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race
Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule
48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by
rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
And what if that is their interpretation? I'll be bet that Charlie
Whiting used his discretion on numerous occasions.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB
needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max >> the championship on a plate.
Ummmmm... ...no.
Hamilton need to defend better to get through the only three legitimate overtaking opportunities on the last lap, and the WDC would have been his.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's
favour but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that
Liberty and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one
that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car.
Also that both organizations would like to see a change of champion
after so many years of Hamilton dominance.
The former is almost certainly true. The latter... ...I'm much more
dubious.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the
result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of
sportsmanship and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they
just have to suck it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in the
last few laps it would have been as great a blow but they would have
been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
I certainly agree with this.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to
be too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and
he has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
No. Absolutely not. Masi is the proxy/patsy for the FIA/Liberty. Nothing
he did in that race was without their concurrence.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail
of the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be
made *after* the race.
I think that the teams should be able to protest by some digital format
that only allows them to state the rule they are protesting and the cars involved and the time of the alleged infraction. That would get passed
on to the stewards for their consideration. But no pleading, whining, cajoling, etc. on the radio.
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that >SundayAs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race Director, >Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule 48.12. The >authorities claim that this contravention was justified by rule 48.13, >which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB >needed a omiracleo) but MasiAs actions were tantamount to handing Max
the championship on a plate.
I donAt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's favour
but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that Liberty
and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one that happened >whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car. Also that both >organizations would like to see a change of champion after so many years
of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the >result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of sportsmanship
and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they just have to suck
it up. After all, had HamiltonAs engine blown in the last few laps it
would have been as great a blow but they would have been able to say, >othatAs motor racingo.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to be
too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and he has >certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail of
the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be made >*after* the race.
On 2021-12-14 12:48 p.m., alister wrote:
On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 20:24:25 +0000, Sir Tim wrote:
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that
SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race
Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule
48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by
rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB
needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max >>> the championship on a plate.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's
favour but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that
Liberty and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one
that happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car.
Also that both organizations would like to see a change of champion
after so many years of Hamilton dominance.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the
result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of
sportsmanship and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they
just have to suck it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in the >>> last few laps it would have been as great a blow but they would have
been able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and most
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to
be too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and
he has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside
F1.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail
of the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be
made *after* the race.
As someone who is totaly biased & wanted to see Ham clinch an 8th wdc.
but I would say I agree 100%
Changing the result on appeal would do more harm than good to the sport
& would be unjust on Max who has done nothing wrong.
The FIA now need to issue a statement something along the lines of
"Whilst the actions of Masi were in accordance with the rules * made in
good faith they were with the benefit of hindsight not the best & it is
with regret that we accept Masi's resignation.
Which would be complete and utter bullshit and just making him the
scapegoat.
On 2021-12-14 12:24 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
Most of us here, with one notable exception, are of the opinion that
SundayrCOs race was rendered a fiasco by the actions of the Race
Director, Michael Masi, whose ruling was in contravention of rule
48.12. The authorities claim that this contravention was justified by
rule 48.13, which, in effect, allows the RD to use his discretion.
And what if that is their interpretation? I'll be bet that Charlie
Whiting used his discretion on numerous occasions.
I think we also agree that both Hamilton and Verstappen have been
driving superbly and either one would have been a worthy champion.
Hamilton looked certain to win (even Christian Horner admitted that RB
needed a rCLmiraclerCY) but MasirCOs actions were tantamount to handing Max >> the championship on a plate.
Ummmmm... ...no.
Hamilton need to defend better to get through the only three legitimate overtaking opportunities on the last lap, and the WDC would have been
his.
I donrCOt believe that Masi was consciously biased in Verstappen's favour
but I *do* believe that foremost in his mind was the fact that Liberty
and the FIA desperately wanted an exciting finish, and one that
happened whilst the cars were racing, not behind the safety car. Also
that both organizations would like to see a change of champion after so
many years of Hamilton dominance.
The former is almost certainly true. The latter... ...I'm much more
dubious.
So what should happen now:
1.Verstappen is WDC. Mercedes should drop any attempt to overturn the
result. To continue to dispute it would be seen as lack of
sportsmanship and would only do them harm. Tough though it is they just
have to suck it up. After all, had HamiltonrCOs engine blown in the last
few laps it would have been as great a blow but they would have been
able to say, rCLthatrCOs motor racingrCY.
I certainly agree with this.
2.Masi should resign or be fired. This is only the latest and mostNo. Absolutely not. Masi is the proxy/patsy for the FIA/Liberty. Nothing
egregious in a series of questionable decisions by him (including the
one not to penalise Hamilton for the first lap incident). He seems to
be too easily swayed by representations from the team principals and he
has certainly lost the respect of many fans, if not those inside F1.
he did in that race was without their concurrence.
3.The teams should not have access to the Race Director during a race.
The stewards have video which enables them to see almost every detail
of the race and their decisions should be final. Protests should be
made *after* the race.
I think that the teams should be able to protest by some digital format
that only allows them to state the rule they are protesting and the cars involved and the time of the alleged infraction. That would get passed
on to the stewards for their consideration. But no pleading, whining, cajoling, etc. on the radio.
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