On Wednesday, 2 September 2020 at 15:44:16 UTC+1, Henry Law wrote:It used to be (long ago) derived from the nautical term, "under weigh" which became "underway" over time. "Weigh" was used because to "weigh anchor" is to lift the anchor off the underwater ground, allowing the boat/ship to begin to move. Being "under weigh(t of the anchor)" (meaning the buoyancy of the craft was now supporting the weight of the anchor) came to mean there was enough water flowing below the keel to allow the rudder to work. So, while it was originally "weigh" the nautical terms are now "underway" and "way" (the state a water craft is in if it is at all moving without an anchor tied to the ground, or without being tied to another ship or pier) despite the action on the anchor still being to "weigh anchor."
Where does the rowing term "Way enough" come from? I recognise "Way"
(or maybe "Weigh") as a nautical term, as in "Under way", so I suppose
the command could mean "We've had enough of way", in other words stop rowing. But in terms of the language structure that seems odd: at the
very least you'd think, with that derivation, the command would be
"Enough Way" rather than as it is.
Is it also the case that "Way Enough" means "Stop what you're doing", irrespective of what that might be? Someone pushing the boathouse door open might therefore be told to "Way 'nuf" while some obstruction is cleared, for example. The equivalent UK term "Easy there" couldn't be
used so generally (especially in its alternative form of "Easy oars".
(We're back in lockdown, having not actually emerged: I have to find things to occupy my mind ...)
--The internet suggests that this debate has gone on a while! (https://rowsource.com/2014/02/weigh-enough/)
Henry Law n e w s @ l a w s h o u s e . o r g
Manchester, England
I had a look at my handy 1889 rowing manual 'Boating by W.B Woodgate', which should be every rower's principal guide with its sound dietary advice for rowers (chops for breakfast, ale with lunch and ale or a light claret with dinner!) This suggests that 'Easy all' is the appropriate command on fresh water and 'Way enough' is a naval term, and so presumably appropriate for salt water! It actually seems quite logical to me. A boat is under way, driven by sail oars or motor. When you don't need the thing that provides the 'way' you call 'enough way'. I think this proves coxes need Jedi mind skills!
On Wednesday, September 2, 2020 at 9:40:15 AM UTC-7, Andy McKenzie wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 September 2020 at 15:44:16 UTC+1, Henry Law wrote:
Where does the rowing term "Way enough" come from? I recognise "Way"The internet suggests that this debate has gone on a while! (https://rowsource.com/2014/02/weigh-enough/)
(or maybe "Weigh") as a nautical term, as in "Under way", so I suppose
the command could mean "We've had enough of way", in other words stop
rowing. But in terms of the language structure that seems odd: at the
very least you'd think, with that derivation, the command would be
"Enough Way" rather than as it is.
Is it also the case that "Way Enough" means "Stop what you're doing",
irrespective of what that might be? Someone pushing the boathouse door
open might therefore be told to "Way 'nuf" while some obstruction is
cleared, for example. The equivalent UK term "Easy there" couldn't be
used so generally (especially in its alternative form of "Easy oars".
(We're back in lockdown, having not actually emerged: I have to find
things to occupy my mind ...)
--
Henry Law n e w s @ l a w s h o u s e . o r g
Manchester, England
I had a look at my handy 1889 rowing manual 'Boating by W.B Woodgate', which should be every rower's principal guide with its sound dietary advice for rowers (chops for breakfast, ale with lunch and ale or a light claret with dinner!) This suggests that 'Easy all' is the appropriate command on fresh water and 'Way enough' is a naval term, and so presumably appropriate for salt water! It actually seems quite logical to me. A boat is under way, driven by sail oars or motor. When you don't need the thing that provides the 'way' you call 'enough way'. I think this proves coxes need Jedi mind skills!
It used to be (long ago) derived from the nautical term, "under weigh" which became "underway" over time. "Weigh" was used because to "weigh anchor" is to lift the anchor off the underwater ground, allowing the boat/ship to begin to move. Being "under weigh(t of the anchor)" (meaning the buoyancy of the craft was now supporting the weight of the anchor) came to mean there was enough water flowing below the keel to allow the rudder to work. So, while it was originally "weigh" the nautical terms are now "underway" and "way" (the state a water craft is in if it is at all moving without an anchor tied to the ground, or without being tied to another ship or pier) despite the action on the anchor still being to "weigh anchor."
So, I've always assumed that the rowing term means "that's enough weigh/way" don't give us any more.
I've heard some people say they thought it derived from "away and up" (with hands and the oars respectively) which isn't too far from making as much sense as anything else.
On 01/10/2020 20:18, KC wrote:Hi Carl,
On Wednesday, September 2, 2020 at 9:40:15 AM UTC-7, Andy McKenzie wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 September 2020 at 15:44:16 UTC+1, Henry Law wrote:
Where does the rowing term "Way enough" come from? I recognise "Way"The internet suggests that this debate has gone on a while! (https://rowsource.com/2014/02/weigh-enough/)
(or maybe "Weigh") as a nautical term, as in "Under way", so I suppose >>> the command could mean "We've had enough of way", in other words stop >>> rowing. But in terms of the language structure that seems odd: at the >>> very least you'd think, with that derivation, the command would be
"Enough Way" rather than as it is.
Is it also the case that "Way Enough" means "Stop what you're doing", >>> irrespective of what that might be? Someone pushing the boathouse door >>> open might therefore be told to "Way 'nuf" while some obstruction is
cleared, for example. The equivalent UK term "Easy there" couldn't be >>> used so generally (especially in its alternative form of "Easy oars". >>>
(We're back in lockdown, having not actually emerged: I have to find
things to occupy my mind ...)
--
Henry Law n e w s @ l a w s h o u s e . o r g
Manchester, England
I had a look at my handy 1889 rowing manual 'Boating by W.B Woodgate', which should be every rower's principal guide with its sound dietary advice for rowers (chops for breakfast, ale with lunch and ale or a light claret with dinner!) This suggests that 'Easy all' is the appropriate command on fresh water and 'Way enough' is a naval term, and so presumably appropriate for salt water! It actually seems quite logical to me. A boat is under way, driven by sail oars or motor. When you don't need the thing that provides the 'way' you call 'enough way'. I think this proves coxes need Jedi mind skills!
It used to be (long ago) derived from the nautical term, "under weigh" which became "underway" over time. "Weigh" was used because to "weigh anchor" is to lift the anchor off the underwater ground, allowing the boat/ship to begin to move. Being "under weigh(t of the anchor)" (meaning the buoyancy of the craft was now supporting the weight of the anchor) came to mean there was enough water flowing below the keel to allow the rudder to work. So, while it was originally "weigh" the nautical terms are now "underway" and "way" (the state a water craft is in if it is at all moving without an anchor tied to the ground, or without being tied to another ship or pier) despite the action on the anchor still being to "weigh anchor."
So, I've always assumed that the rowing term means "that's enough weigh/way" don't give us any more.
I've heard some people say they thought it derived from "away and up" (with hands and the oars respectively) which isn't too far from making as much sense as anything else.
Way-nuff makes perfect sense - "way" being movement (as you say) &
"'nuff" being sufficiency, "enough".
On this side of the pond we "Easy!" or "Easy all!", possibly coming from "easy-oars", & perhaps a bit soft & indecisive by comparison. I might slightly disagree with Henry as I think that our term comes from the sea (the first Universities Boat Races were rowed in craft akin to whalers).
But who cares?
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
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On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 3:18:15 PM UTC-7, carl wrote:Reading a bit more, the naval terminology may have it's derivations less in 'way' as being 'under way' and more in an exact analogy to the anchor. You 'weigh' an anchor by raising it off the bottom, so you feel it's weight - you 'weigh' oars by raising them off the water and feeling their 'weight'. At some point 'oar' has morphed to 'enough' (or enuf!) in the same way 'easy oar' and 'easy all' become interchangeable, especially with the usual muffled crackly cox-box!
On 01/10/2020 20:18, KC wrote:
On Wednesday, September 2, 2020 at 9:40:15 AM UTC-7, Andy McKenzie wrote:
On Wednesday, 2 September 2020 at 15:44:16 UTC+1, Henry Law wrote:
Where does the rowing term "Way enough" come from? I recognise "Way" >>> (or maybe "Weigh") as a nautical term, as in "Under way", so I suppose >>> the command could mean "We've had enough of way", in other words stop >>> rowing. But in terms of the language structure that seems odd: at the >>> very least you'd think, with that derivation, the command would beThe internet suggests that this debate has gone on a while! (https://rowsource.com/2014/02/weigh-enough/)
"Enough Way" rather than as it is.
Is it also the case that "Way Enough" means "Stop what you're doing", >>> irrespective of what that might be? Someone pushing the boathouse door >>> open might therefore be told to "Way 'nuf" while some obstruction is >>> cleared, for example. The equivalent UK term "Easy there" couldn't be >>> used so generally (especially in its alternative form of "Easy oars". >>>
(We're back in lockdown, having not actually emerged: I have to find >>> things to occupy my mind ...)
--
Henry Law n e w s @ l a w s h o u s e . o r g
Manchester, England
I had a look at my handy 1889 rowing manual 'Boating by W.B Woodgate', which should be every rower's principal guide with its sound dietary advice for rowers (chops for breakfast, ale with lunch and ale or a light claret with dinner!) This suggests that 'Easy all' is the appropriate command on fresh water and 'Way enough' is a naval term, and so presumably appropriate for salt water! It actually seems quite logical to me. A boat is under way, driven by sail oars or motor. When you don't need the thing that provides the 'way' you call 'enough way'. I think this proves coxes need Jedi mind skills!
It used to be (long ago) derived from the nautical term, "under weigh" which became "underway" over time. "Weigh" was used because to "weigh anchor" is to lift the anchor off the underwater ground, allowing the boat/ship to begin to move. Being "under weigh(t of the anchor)" (meaning the buoyancy of the craft was now supporting the weight of the anchor) came to mean there was enough water flowing below the keel to allow the rudder to work. So, while it was originally "weigh" the nautical terms are now "underway" and "way" (the state a water craft is in if it is at all moving without an anchor tied to the ground, or without being tied to another ship or pier) despite the action on the anchor still being to "weigh anchor."
So, I've always assumed that the rowing term means "that's enough weigh/way" don't give us any more.
I've heard some people say they thought it derived from "away and up" (with hands and the oars respectively) which isn't too far from making as much sense as anything else.
Way-nuff makes perfect sense - "way" being movement (as you say) &
"'nuff" being sufficiency, "enough".
On this side of the pond we "Easy!" or "Easy all!", possibly coming from "easy-oars", & perhaps a bit soft & indecisive by comparison. I might slightly disagree with Henry as I think that our term comes from the sea (the first Universities Boat Races were rowed in craft akin to whalers). But who cares?
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682 URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
---Hi Carl,
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Yes, I always had a bit of a snigger when I would hear UK crews (or rather their coxswains) call "easy ALL!" and then with increasing urgency, "eeeasy, EASY! EASY!!!" if they were about to hit something or if just one of the rowers wasn't paying attention.
Incidentally, a good friend (former boss, who was a rower in the UK as a kid) with whom I've done a LOT of road cycling over the years, calls "easy" when he wants us or the cycling group to slow / stop for any reason.
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