• DotD - last race

    From XYXPDQ@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Dec 13 12:06:39 2020
    Except for the start and safety car that was complete snooze toward the front.

    Give it to Max.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Sir Tim@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Dec 13 22:15:42 2020
    XYXPDQ <qwrtz123@gmail.com> wrote:
    Except for the start and safety car that was complete snooze toward the front.

    Give it to Max.


    Agreed (but interesting that when Hamilton has a perfect race he doesnrCOt
    get DotD).

    --
    Sir Tim
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From alister@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Dec 13 22:51:56 2020
    On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 22:15:42 +0000, Sir Tim wrote:

    XYXPDQ <qwrtz123@gmail.com> wrote:
    Except for the start and safety car that was complete snooze toward the
    front.

    Give it to Max.


    Agreed (but interesting that when Hamilton has a perfect race he doesnrCOt get DotD).



    in this instance I think it is primarily because no one did anything particularly noteworthy (except possibly a red bill running away from a
    merc)

    --
    A statistician, who refused to fly after reading of the alarmingly high probability that there will be a bomb on any given plane, realized that
    the probability of there being two bombs on any given flight is very low.
    Now, whenever he flies, he carries a bomb with him.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Dec 13 15:05:34 2020
    On 2020-12-13 2:15 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
    XYXPDQ <qwrtz123@gmail.com> wrote:
    Except for the start and safety car that was complete snooze toward the front.

    Give it to Max.


    Agreed (but interesting that when Hamilton has a perfect race he doesnrCOt get DotD).

    Do you not get that the Mercedes has been utterly dominant?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 15:19:51 2020
    On 14/12/2020 12:05 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-13 2:15 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
    XYXPDQ <qwrtz123@gmail.com> wrote:
    Except for the start and safety car that was complete snooze toward
    the front.

    Give it to Max.


    Agreed (but interesting that when Hamilton has a perfect race he doesnrCOt >> get DotD).

    Do you not get that the Mercedes has been utterly dominant?


    When you get around to watching this race you may find that this was not
    quite the case.

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Dec 13 18:37:30 2020
    On 2020-12-13 6:19 p.m., geoff wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 12:05 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-13 2:15 p.m., Sir Tim wrote:
    XYXPDQ <qwrtz123@gmail.com> wrote:
    Except for the start and safety car that was complete snooze toward
    the front.

    Give it to Max.


    Agreed (but interesting that when Hamilton has a perfect race he doesnrCOt >>> get DotD).

    Do you not get that the Mercedes has been utterly dominant?


    When you get around to watching this race you may find that this was not quite the case.

    geoff

    I've already watched it.

    It was quite clearly stated that Mercedes had power issues.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From ~misfit~@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 16:52:57 2020
    On 14/12/2020 11:15 am, Sir Tim wrote:
    XYXPDQ <qwrtz123@gmail.com> wrote:
    Except for the start and safety car that was complete snooze toward the front.

    Give it to Max.

    Agreed (but interesting that when Hamilton has a perfect race he doesnrCOt get DotD).

    Whatever do you mean? I'm repeatedly told that there's no such things as (First-)World-wide
    systemic racism.

    Actually thanks for that comment, it got me going...

    Here's F1's 2020 DotD results and according to this page: <https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.driver-of-the-day-2020.30G6kHOGAe7Wcz2KBwwObh.html>

    PER 3
    VER 3
    VET 2
    GAS 2
    RIC 1
    RAI 1
    GRO 1
    ALB 1
    RUS 1
    HUL 1
    HAM 1

    Interesting statistics in and of themselves in a year when Hamilton was imperious and easily the
    class of the field. Then again it is a popular vote among relatively affluent (white) people and
    Hamilton is black.

    However, being an unapologetic cynic I have to wonder why the only time Hamilton won DotD according
    to formula1.com was at the British GP and they don't have the percentages displayed for that race
    on that page.

    So, curiosity piqued I just reviewed the last ten minutes or so of three races, The British GP and
    the preceding race and the following race.

    The preceding race at Hungary was 70 laps and at laps 61, 65 and 68 the 'Vote DotD' graphic came on
    screen and each time percentages of the leading drivers were given. On the cool-down lap the
    graphic showed the winner with percentage of votes [VER 18%].

    The race following Hamilton's DotD was also at Silverstone and was 52 laps. On laps 49 and 51 the
    graphic came up saying to vote and displaying the votes so far with percentages of the leading
    drivers. The winner came up on the cool-down lap and the percentage of votes won [VER 31%].

    Yet for the British GP (also 52 laps) on laps 44 and 47 the 'Vote for DotD' graphic came on screen
    but didn't show any 'results so far' and there was no on-screen result shown on the cool-down lap.
    (Though they did put Verstappen fastest lap in the bottom right corner where and when they'd
    normally have DotD.) I just re-watched the interviews and podium. I even watched 30 minutes of
    Sky's post-race coverage and no DotD was mentioned (but I may have missed it, I was watching that
    at 2x speed)

    So was Hamilton 'getting' the British GP DotD a blackwash by F1? It did after all happen during a
    time of World-wide race riots (and was incidentally the only time ever that any driver has won
    their home GP 7 times).

    I smell a rat...
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Dec 13 20:07:35 2020
    On 2020-12-13 7:52 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 11:15 am, Sir Tim wrote:
    XYXPDQ <qwrtz123@gmail.com> wrote:
    Except for the start and safety car that was complete snooze toward
    the front.

    Give it to Max.

    Agreed (but interesting that when Hamilton has a perfect race he doesnrCOt >> get DotD).

    Whatever do you mean? I'm repeatedly told that there's no such things as (First-)World-wide systemic racism.

    Actually thanks for that comment, it got me going...

    Here's F1's 2020 DotD results and according to this page: <https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.driver-of-the-day-2020.30G6kHOGAe7Wcz2KBwwObh.html>


    PER-a-a-a 3
    VER-a-a-a 3
    VET-a-a-a 2
    GAS-a-a-a 2
    RIC-a-a-a 1
    RAI-a-a-a 1
    GRO-a-a-a 1
    ALB-a-a-a 1
    RUS-a-a-a 1
    HUL-a-a-a 1
    HAM-a-a-a 1

    Interesting statistics in and of themselves in a year when Hamilton was imperious and easily the class of the field. Then again it is a popular
    vote among relatively affluent (white) people and Hamilton is black.

    Hamilton was the class of the field in large part because he was in the
    car that is very clearly the class of the field.

    Witness how "great" George Russell got when he got to drive the Mercedes.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 17:42:08 2020
    On 14/12/2020 5:07 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-13 7:52 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 11:15 am, Sir Tim wrote:
    XYXPDQ <qwrtz123@gmail.com> wrote:
    Except for the start and safety car that was complete snooze toward
    the front.

    Give it to Max.

    Agreed (but interesting that when Hamilton has a perfect race he doesnrCOt >>> get DotD).

    Whatever do you mean? I'm repeatedly told that there's no such things
    as (First-)World-wide systemic racism.

    Actually thanks for that comment, it got me going...

    Here's F1's 2020 DotD results and according to this page:
    <https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.driver-of-the-day-2020.30G6kHOGAe7Wcz2KBwwObh.html>


    PER-a-a-a 3
    VER-a-a-a 3
    VET-a-a-a 2
    GAS-a-a-a 2
    RIC-a-a-a 1
    RAI-a-a-a 1
    GRO-a-a-a 1
    ALB-a-a-a 1
    RUS-a-a-a 1
    HUL-a-a-a 1
    HAM-a-a-a 1

    Interesting statistics in and of themselves in a year when Hamilton
    was imperious and easily the class of the field. Then again it is a
    popular vote among relatively affluent (white) people and Hamilton is
    black.

    Hamilton was the class of the field in large part because he was in the
    car that is very clearly the class of the field.

    Witness how "great" George Russell got when he got to drive the Mercedes.

    Clearly he was. And ..... ?

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Brian Lawrence@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 06:39:07 2020
    On 14/12/2020 03:52, ~misfit~ wrote:

    <snip>

    So was Hamilton 'getting' the British GP DotD a blackwash by F1? It did after all happen during a time of World-wide race riots (and was incidentally the only time ever that any driver has won their home GP 7 times).

    I smell a rat...

    The FIA DotD has now been running for 5 seasons and exactly 100 races.
    These are the 'winners'.

    Max 24
    Seb 18
    Lewis 8
    RIC 8
    BOT 5 #
    LEC 5 #
    Kimi 4
    Checo 4
    Alex 3
    Pierre 3
    GRO 3

    # no awards in 2020

    Twice - ALO, NOR, HUL
    Once - KVY, MAG, ROS, STR, RUS

    Only the Hulk & George won in 2020.

    The Max fans are the most loyal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Brian Lawrence@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 09:23:38 2020
    On 14/12/2020 06:39, Brian Lawrence wrote:

    Of the 100 GPs, the DotD

    won 29
    2nd 17
    3rd 12 (58 podiums)

    4th-10th 35 (non-podium, but in the points)

    11th or lower 4

    2018 Abu Dhabi Alonso 11th 'last race'
    2019 Belgium Norris 11th was in top 6 until final lap
    2019 Abu Dhabi Hulkenberg 12th 'last race'
    2020 Austria Albon 13th collided with HAM when 3rd

    DNF 3

    2016 USA Max Verstappen
    2019 Russia Sebastian Vettel refused to allow LEC to pass
    2020 Bahrain Romain Grosjean

    It should not be a surprise that a DotD when finishing out of the
    points, or not finishing, can often gain sympathy votes.

    The 29 race wins were by:

    Verstappen 8 (10 wins in last 100 GPs)
    Vettel 6 (11)
    Hamilton 5 (52)
    Bottas 5 (9)
    Ricciardo 2 (4)
    Rosberg 1 (9)
    Leclerc 1 (2)
    Gasly 1 (1)

    Only Hamilton & Rosberg won DotD less than 50% of the times
    they won the race.

    Stating the obvious again, many votes have nothing to do with who the
    best driver was on those days.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From ~misfit~@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 22:47:01 2020
    On 14/12/2020 10:23 pm, Brian Lawrence wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 06:39, Brian Lawrence wrote:

    Of the 100 GPs, the DotD

    won-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 29
    2nd-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 17
    3rd-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 12-a (58 podiums)

    4th-10th-a-a-a-a-a-a 35-a (non-podium, but in the points)

    11th or lower-a-a 4

    2018-a Abu Dhabi-a-a-a Alonso-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 11th-a-a 'last race'
    2019-a Belgium-a-a-a-a-a Norris-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 11th-a-a was in top 6 until final lap
    2019-a Abu Dhabi-a-a-a Hulkenberg-a-a-a-a 12th-a-a 'last race'
    2020-a Austria-a-a-a-a-a Albon-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 13th-a-a collided with HAM when 3rd

    DNF-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 3

    2016-a USA-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Max Verstappen
    2019-a Russia-a-a-a-a-a-a Sebastian Vettel-a-a-a refused to allow LEC to pass 2020-a Bahrain-a-a-a-a-a Romain Grosjean

    It should not be a surprise that a DotD when finishing out of the points,-a or not finishing, can
    often gain sympathy votes.

    The 29 race wins were by:

    Verstappen-a-a-a 8-a (10 wins in last 100 GPs)
    Vettel-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 6-a (11)
    Hamilton-a-a-a-a-a 5-a (52)
    Bottas-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 5-a-a (9)
    Ricciardo-a-a-a-a 2-a-a (4)
    Rosberg-a-a-a-a-a-a 1-a-a (9)
    Leclerc-a-a-a-a-a-a 1-a-a (2)
    Gasly-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 1-a-a (1)

    Only Hamilton & Rosberg won DotD less than 50% of the times
    they won the race.

    Stating the obvious again, many votes have nothing to do with who the
    best driver was on those days.

    Thanks for that Brian. Indeed it is after all a plebiscite (of the Roman kind, not the modern meaning).

    One only needs to read some of the posts in this froup to see that, even amongst regular followers
    of F1, opinions often have little in common with actual driver skill.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Matt Larkin@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 01:52:34 2020
    On Monday, 14 December 2020 at 09:47:06 UTC, ~misfit~ wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 10:23 pm, Brian Lawrence wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 06:39, Brian Lawrence wrote:

    Of the 100 GPs, the DotD

    won 29
    2nd 17
    3rd 12 (58 podiums)

    4th-10th 35 (non-podium, but in the points)

    11th or lower 4

    2018 Abu Dhabi Alonso 11th 'last race'
    2019 Belgium Norris 11th was in top 6 until final lap
    2019 Abu Dhabi Hulkenberg 12th 'last race'
    2020 Austria Albon 13th collided with HAM when 3rd

    DNF 3

    2016 USA Max Verstappen
    2019 Russia Sebastian Vettel refused to allow LEC to pass
    2020 Bahrain Romain Grosjean

    It should not be a surprise that a DotD when finishing out of the points, or not finishing, can
    often gain sympathy votes.

    The 29 race wins were by:

    Verstappen 8 (10 wins in last 100 GPs)
    Vettel 6 (11)
    Hamilton 5 (52)
    Bottas 5 (9)
    Ricciardo 2 (4)
    Rosberg 1 (9)
    Leclerc 1 (2)
    Gasly 1 (1)

    Only Hamilton & Rosberg won DotD less than 50% of the times
    they won the race.

    Stating the obvious again, many votes have nothing to do with who the
    best driver was on those days.
    Thanks for that Brian. Indeed it is after all a plebiscite (of the Roman kind, not the modern meaning).

    One only needs to read some of the posts in this froup to see that, even amongst regular followers
    of F1, opinions often have little in common with actual driver skill.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
    DotD is (should be) rewarding a driver who has exceeded expectations. That's where Hamilton
    falls down, he is expected to dominate, so when he does it looks normal.

    We saw today what happens when he is driving sub-par, it's just that we don't see that that
    often.

    Maybe if we had more faith in Bottas to be wringing 99.9% out of the package we might be able to
    judge that Hamilton is getting 100% and therefore continually deserving of a DotD accolade.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Mark@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 11:23:08 2020
    Matt Larkin <matthew.larkin@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Monday, 14 December 2020 at 09:47:06 UTC, ~misfit~ wrote:

    Thanks for that Brian. Indeed it is after all a plebiscite (of the Roman kind, not the modern meaning).

    One only needs to read some of the posts in this froup to see that, even amongst regular followers
    of F1, opinions often have little in common with actual driver skill.

    DotD is (should be) rewarding a driver who has exceeded expectations. That's where Hamilton
    falls down, he is expected to dominate, so when he does it looks normal.

    We saw today what happens when he is driving sub-par, it's just that we don't see that that
    often.

    Maybe if we had more faith in Bottas to be wringing 99.9% out of the package we might be able to
    judge that Hamilton is getting 100% and therefore continually deserving of a DotD accolade.

    Don't be daft. As we keep being told, Hamilton is very average and it's
    99.9% the car. Clearly, yesterday it was 100% the car underperforming.

    According to some...
    ;-)
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Sir Tim@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 12:54:39 2020
    Matt Larkin <matthew.larkin@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Monday, 14 December 2020 at 09:47:06 UTC, ~misfit~ wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 10:23 pm, Brian Lawrence wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 06:39, Brian Lawrence wrote:

    Of the 100 GPs, the DotD

    won 29
    2nd 17
    3rd 12 (58 podiums)

    4th-10th 35 (non-podium, but in the points)

    11th or lower 4

    2018 Abu Dhabi Alonso 11th 'last race'
    2019 Belgium Norris 11th was in top 6 until final lap
    2019 Abu Dhabi Hulkenberg 12th 'last race'
    2020 Austria Albon 13th collided with HAM when 3rd

    DNF 3

    2016 USA Max Verstappen
    2019 Russia Sebastian Vettel refused to allow LEC to pass
    2020 Bahrain Romain Grosjean

    It should not be a surprise that a DotD when finishing out of the
    points, or not finishing, can
    often gain sympathy votes.

    The 29 race wins were by:

    Verstappen 8 (10 wins in last 100 GPs)
    Vettel 6 (11)
    Hamilton 5 (52)
    Bottas 5 (9)
    Ricciardo 2 (4)
    Rosberg 1 (9)
    Leclerc 1 (2)
    Gasly 1 (1)

    Only Hamilton & Rosberg won DotD less than 50% of the times
    they won the race.

    Stating the obvious again, many votes have nothing to do with who the
    best driver was on those days.
    Thanks for that Brian. Indeed it is after all a plebiscite (of the Roman
    kind, not the modern meaning).

    One only needs to read some of the posts in this froup to see that, even
    amongst regular followers
    of F1, opinions often have little in common with actual driver skill.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a
    cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any
    half-arsed self-promoting software.

    DotD is (should be) rewarding a driver who has exceeded expectations.
    That's where Hamilton
    falls down, he is expected to dominate, so when
    he does it looks normal.

    Fair point.

    --
    Sir Tim
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From texas gate@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 05:50:44 2020
    On Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 8:53:02 PM UTC-7, ~misfit~ wrote:

    Whatever do you mean? I'm repeatedly told that there's no such things as (First-)World-wide
    systemic racism.

    Actually thanks for that comment, it got me going...

    Here's F1's 2020 DotD results and according to this page: <https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.driver-of-the-day-2020.30G6kHOGAe7Wcz2KBwwObh.html>

    PER 3
    VER 3
    VET 2
    GAS 2
    RIC 1
    RAI 1
    GRO 1
    ALB 1
    RUS 1
    HUL 1
    HAM 1

    Interesting statistics in and of themselves in a year when Hamilton was imperious and easily the
    class of the field. Then again it is a popular vote among relatively affluent (white) people and
    Hamilton is black.

    However, being an unapologetic cynic I have to wonder why the only time Hamilton won DotD according
    to formula1.com was at the British GP and they don't have the percentages displayed for that race
    on that page.

    So, curiosity piqued I just reviewed the last ten minutes or so of three races, The British GP and
    the preceding race and the following race.

    The preceding race at Hungary was 70 laps and at laps 61, 65 and 68 the 'Vote DotD' graphic came on
    screen and each time percentages of the leading drivers were given. On the cool-down lap the
    graphic showed the winner with percentage of votes [VER 18%].

    The race following Hamilton's DotD was also at Silverstone and was 52 laps. On laps 49 and 51 the
    graphic came up saying to vote and displaying the votes so far with percentages of the leading
    drivers. The winner came up on the cool-down lap and the percentage of votes won [VER 31%].

    Yet for the British GP (also 52 laps) on laps 44 and 47 the 'Vote for DotD' graphic came on screen
    but didn't show any 'results so far' and there was no on-screen result shown on the cool-down lap.
    (Though they did put Verstappen fastest lap in the bottom right corner where and when they'd
    normally have DotD.) I just re-watched the interviews and podium. I even watched 30 minutes of
    Sky's post-race coverage and no DotD was mentioned (but I may have missed it, I was watching that
    at 2x speed)

    So was Hamilton 'getting' the British GP DotD a blackwash by F1? It did after all happen during a
    time of World-wide race riots (and was incidentally the only time ever that any driver has won
    their home GP 7 times).

    I smell a rat...

    Thank you for your never ending negativity.
    You fucking cry baby, piece of shit, cock sucker.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 09:05:53 2020
    On 2020-12-14 3:23 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Matt Larkin <matthew.larkin@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Monday, 14 December 2020 at 09:47:06 UTC, ~misfit~ wrote:

    Thanks for that Brian. Indeed it is after all a plebiscite (of the Roman kind, not the modern meaning).

    One only needs to read some of the posts in this froup to see that, even amongst regular followers
    of F1, opinions often have little in common with actual driver skill.

    DotD is (should be) rewarding a driver who has exceeded expectations. That's where Hamilton
    falls down, he is expected to dominate, so when he does it looks normal.

    We saw today what happens when he is driving sub-par, it's just that we don't see that that
    often.

    Maybe if we had more faith in Bottas to be wringing 99.9% out of the package we might be able to
    judge that Hamilton is getting 100% and therefore continually deserving of a DotD accolade.

    Don't be daft. As we keep being told, Hamilton is very average and it's
    99.9% the car. Clearly, yesterday it was 100% the car underperforming.

    I don't know who ever claimed that...

    ...but it wasn't me.

    Hamilton is clearly, and as I've said many times, one of the very best
    out there today.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From texas gate@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 09:39:57 2020
    On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 2:47:06 AM UTC-7, ~misfit~ wrote:

    One only needs to read some of the posts in this froup to see that, even amongst regular followers
    of F1, opinions often have little in common with actual driver skill.

    Oh poor fucking you.
    Life's a real fucking bitch.
    You fucking idiot.
    Log the fuck off.
    Do another handful of meds.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From build@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 14:15:46 2020
    On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 9:51:58 AM UTC+11, alister wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 22:15:42 +0000, Sir Tim wrote:

    XYXPDQ <qwrt...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Except for the start and safety car that was complete snooze toward the >> front.

    Give it to Max.


    Agreed (but interesting that when Hamilton has a perfect race he doesnrCOt get DotD).
    in this instance I think it is primarily because no one did anything particularly noteworthy (except possibly a red bill running away from a merc)

    --
    A statistician, who refused to fly after reading of the alarmingly high probability that there will be a bomb on any given plane, realized that
    the probability of there being two bombs on any given flight is very low. Now, whenever he flies, he carries a bomb with him.
    Did anyone notice Kimi ? Perhaps Sky ignored his drive ?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From build@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 14:17:14 2020
    On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 4:05:56 AM UTC+11, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-14 3:23 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Matt Larkin <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Monday, 14 December 2020 at 09:47:06 UTC, ~misfit~ wrote:

    Thanks for that Brian. Indeed it is after all a plebiscite (of the Roman kind, not the modern meaning).

    One only needs to read some of the posts in this froup to see that, even amongst regular followers
    of F1, opinions often have little in common with actual driver skill.

    DotD is (should be) rewarding a driver who has exceeded expectations. That's where Hamilton
    falls down, he is expected to dominate, so when he does it looks normal. >>
    We saw today what happens when he is driving sub-par, it's just that we don't see that that
    often.

    Maybe if we had more faith in Bottas to be wringing 99.9% out of the package we might be able to
    judge that Hamilton is getting 100% and therefore continually deserving of a DotD accolade.

    Don't be daft. As we keep being told, Hamilton is very average and it's 99.9% the car. Clearly, yesterday it was 100% the car underperforming.
    I don't know who ever claimed that...

    ...but it wasn't me.

    Hamilton is clearly, and as I've said many times, one of the very best
    out there today.

    HUH? Are you referring to Abu Dhabi ?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 14:57:42 2020
    On 2020-12-14 2:17 p.m., build wrote:
    On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 4:05:56 AM UTC+11, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-14 3:23 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Matt Larkin <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Monday, 14 December 2020 at 09:47:06 UTC, ~misfit~ wrote:

    Thanks for that Brian. Indeed it is after all a plebiscite (of the Roman kind, not the modern meaning).

    One only needs to read some of the posts in this froup to see that, even amongst regular followers
    of F1, opinions often have little in common with actual driver skill. >>>>
    DotD is (should be) rewarding a driver who has exceeded expectations. That's where Hamilton
    falls down, he is expected to dominate, so when he does it looks normal. >>>>
    We saw today what happens when he is driving sub-par, it's just that we don't see that that
    often.

    Maybe if we had more faith in Bottas to be wringing 99.9% out of the package we might be able to
    judge that Hamilton is getting 100% and therefore continually deserving of a DotD accolade.

    Don't be daft. As we keep being told, Hamilton is very average and it's
    99.9% the car. Clearly, yesterday it was 100% the car underperforming.
    I don't know who ever claimed that...

    ...but it wasn't me.

    Hamilton is clearly, and as I've said many times, one of the very best
    out there today.

    HUH? Are you referring to Abu Dhabi ?


    I'm referring to his general level of performance.

    I think it's patently obvious...

    (yes, I know: a tautology; deliberately so)

    ...that Hamilton was not back to 100% following a serious illness.

    I have said that I think Hamilton is one of the very best ever over and
    over and over.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From ~misfit~@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 15 12:38:00 2020
    On 14/12/2020 10:23 pm, Brian Lawrence wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 06:39, Brian Lawrence wrote:

    Of the 100 GPs, the DotD

    won-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 29
    2nd-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 17
    3rd-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 12-a (58 podiums)

    4th-10th-a-a-a-a-a-a 35-a (non-podium, but in the points)

    11th or lower-a-a 4

    2018-a Abu Dhabi-a-a-a Alonso-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 11th-a-a 'last race'
    2019-a Belgium-a-a-a-a-a Norris-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 11th-a-a was in top 6 until final lap
    2019-a Abu Dhabi-a-a-a Hulkenberg-a-a-a-a 12th-a-a 'last race'
    2020-a Austria-a-a-a-a-a Albon-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 13th-a-a collided with HAM when 3rd

    DNF-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 3

    2016-a USA-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Max Verstappen
    2019-a Russia-a-a-a-a-a-a Sebastian Vettel-a-a-a refused to allow LEC to pass 2020-a Bahrain-a-a-a-a-a Romain Grosjean

    It should not be a surprise that a DotD when finishing out of the points,-a or not finishing, can
    often gain sympathy votes.

    The 29 race wins were by:

    Verstappen-a-a-a 8-a (10 wins in last 100 GPs)
    Vettel-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 6-a (11)
    Hamilton-a-a-a-a-a 5-a (52)
    Bottas-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 5-a-a (9)
    Ricciardo-a-a-a-a 2-a-a (4)
    Rosberg-a-a-a-a-a-a 1-a-a (9)
    Leclerc-a-a-a-a-a-a 1-a-a (2)
    Gasly-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 1-a-a (1)

    Only Hamilton & Rosberg won DotD less than 50% of the times
    they won the race.

    Stating the obvious again, many votes have nothing to do with who the
    best driver was on those days.

    Thanks again Brian. I don't have ready access to these figures and was wondering if you could
    please post a simple list of which drivers got how many of those 100 DotD awards? I can't see who
    got DotD in positions 2 to 10 from this data set.

    Cheers.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From ~misfit~@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 15 12:46:15 2020
    On 14/12/2020 10:52 pm, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Monday, 14 December 2020 at 09:47:06 UTC, ~misfit~ wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 10:23 pm, Brian Lawrence wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 06:39, Brian Lawrence wrote:

    Of the 100 GPs, the DotD

    won 29
    2nd 17
    3rd 12 (58 podiums)

    4th-10th 35 (non-podium, but in the points)

    11th or lower 4

    2018 Abu Dhabi Alonso 11th 'last race'
    2019 Belgium Norris 11th was in top 6 until final lap
    2019 Abu Dhabi Hulkenberg 12th 'last race'
    2020 Austria Albon 13th collided with HAM when 3rd

    DNF 3

    2016 USA Max Verstappen
    2019 Russia Sebastian Vettel refused to allow LEC to pass
    2020 Bahrain Romain Grosjean

    It should not be a surprise that a DotD when finishing out of the points, or not finishing, can
    often gain sympathy votes.

    The 29 race wins were by:

    Verstappen 8 (10 wins in last 100 GPs)
    Vettel 6 (11)
    Hamilton 5 (52)
    Bottas 5 (9)
    Ricciardo 2 (4)
    Rosberg 1 (9)
    Leclerc 1 (2)
    Gasly 1 (1)

    Only Hamilton & Rosberg won DotD less than 50% of the times
    they won the race.

    Stating the obvious again, many votes have nothing to do with who the
    best driver was on those days.
    Thanks for that Brian. Indeed it is after all a plebiscite (of the Roman kind, not the modern meaning).

    One only needs to read some of the posts in this froup to see that, even amongst regular followers
    of F1, opinions often have little in common with actual driver skill.

    DotD is (should be) rewarding a driver who has exceeded expectations. That's where Hamilton
    falls down, he is expected to dominate, so when he does it looks normal.

    We saw today what happens when he is driving sub-par, it's just that we don't see that that
    often.

    Maybe if we had more faith in Bottas to be wringing 99.9% out of the package we might be able to
    judge that Hamilton is getting 100% and therefore continually deserving of a DotD accolade.

    Can you show me where on the F1 site it says that about DotD? Because as far as I can tell it's
    just a popularity contest / coordinated flood-vote with a bit of 'oh didn't he do well' thrown in.

    Otherwise how do you explain Max getting so many wins when according to some he was already the
    best / second-best driver on the grid? I'd love to see the total number of votes cast, especially
    when 'sympathy wins' happened. I suspect they would have the highest numbers of total votes (to
    have beaten the 'Dutch army').

    In fact it wouldn't surprise me if lately F1 had applied an algorithm / human oversight to the
    votes to compensate for coordinated flood-voting for Max. It would make a mockery of their vote if
    Max won it every race (as he seemed to be doing for a while). OF course they wouldn't want this
    exposed as 'fan engagement' increases revenue.

    Unless F1 can prove me wrong I'm pretty sure the British GP results were rigged because I suspect
    perhaps Max was winning it but, for political reasons they wanted Lewis to win DotD as well as the
    race.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From texas gate@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 15:49:23 2020
    On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 4:38:04 PM UTC-7, ~misfit~ wrote:

    Thanks again Brian. I don't have ready access to these figures and was wondering if you could
    please post a simple list of which drivers got how many of those 100 DotD awards? I can't see who
    got DotD in positions 2 to 10 from this data set.

    Why? So you can cry, bitch, moan and criticize it some more?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From texas gate@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 14 16:51:15 2020
    On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 4:46:19 PM UTC-7, ~misfit~ wrote:

    Unless F1 can prove me wrong

    Ya, they cater to pirating losers.
    It's on the top of their list.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Brian Lawrence@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 15 05:50:25 2020
    On 14/12/2020 23:38, ~misfit~ wrote:

    Thanks again Brian. I don't have ready access to these figures and was wondering if you could please post a simple list of which drivers got
    how many of those 100 DotD awards? I can't see who got DotD in positions
    2 to 10 from this data set.

    Cheers.

    No problem.

    Totals for each driver

    Tot 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 ===============================================
    Max Verstappen 28 8 3 6 7 4
    Sebastian Vettel 18 3 7 3 3 2
    Lewis Hamilton 8 1 3 3 - 1
    Daniel Ricciardo 8 1 2 4 - 1
    Valtteri Bottas 5 - 3 - 2 -
    Charles Leclerc 5 - - 1 4 -
    Kimi Raikkonen 4 1 1 1 - 1
    Sergio Perez 4 2 - - - 2
    Alexander Albon 3 - - - 2 1
    Pierre Gasly 3 - - 1 - 2
    Romain Grosjean 3 2 - - - 1
    Fernando Alonso 2 - - 2 - -
    Lando Norris 2 - - - 2 -
    Nico Hulkenberg 2 - - - 1 1
    Daniil Kvyat 1 1 - - - -
    Kevin Magnussen 1 1 - - - -
    Nico Rosberg 1 1 - - - -
    Lance Stroll 1 - 1 - - -
    George Russell 1 - - - - 1 -----------------------------------------------
    100 21 20 21 21 17

    2016

    Verstappen 8
    Vettel 3
    Perez 2
    Grosjean 2 6 others with 1 each

    2017

    Vettel 7
    Verstappen 3
    Hamilton 3
    Ricciardo 2 2 others

    2018

    Verstappen 6
    Ricciardo 4
    Vettel 3
    Hamilton 3
    Alonso 2 3 others

    2019

    Verstappen 7
    Leclerc 4
    Vettel 3

    2 - Bottas, Albon, Norris 1 other

    2020

    Verstappen 4
    Vettel 2
    Perez 2
    Gasly 2 7 others
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From ~misfit~@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 15 21:01:19 2020
    On 15/12/2020 6:50 pm, Brian Lawrence wrote:
    On 14/12/2020 23:38, ~misfit~ wrote:

    Thanks again Brian. I don't have ready access to these figures and was wondering if you could
    please post a simple list of which drivers got how many of those 100 DotD awards? I can't see who
    got DotD in positions 2 to 10 from this data set.

    Cheers.

    No problem.

    Totals for each driver

    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Tot-a 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 ===============================================
    Max Verstappen-a-a-a-a 28-a-a-a-a 8-a-a-a 3-a-a-a 6-a-a-a 7-a-a-a 4
    Sebastian Vettel-a-a 18-a-a-a-a 3-a-a-a 7-a-a-a 3-a-a-a 3-a-a-a 2
    Lewis Hamilton-a-a-a-a-a 8-a-a-a-a 1-a-a-a 3-a-a-a 3-a-a-a --a-a-a 1
    Daniel Ricciardo-a-a-a 8-a-a-a-a 1-a-a-a 2-a-a-a 4-a-a-a --a-a-a 1
    Valtteri Bottas-a-a-a-a 5-a-a-a-a --a-a-a 3-a-a-a --a-a-a 2-a-a-a -
    Charles Leclerc-a-a-a-a 5-a-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a 1-a-a-a 4-a-a-a -
    Kimi Raikkonen-a-a-a-a-a 4-a-a-a-a 1-a-a-a 1-a-a-a 1-a-a-a --a-a-a 1
    Sergio Perez-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 4-a-a-a-a 2-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a 2 Alexander Albon-a-a-a-a 3-a-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a 2-a-a-a 1
    Pierre Gasly-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 3-a-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a 1-a-a-a --a-a-a 2
    Romain Grosjean-a-a-a-a 3-a-a-a-a 2-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a 1
    Fernando Alonso-a-a-a-a 2-a-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a 2-a-a-a --a-a-a -
    Lando Norris-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 2-a-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a 2-a-a-a -
    Nico Hulkenberg-a-a-a-a 2-a-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a 1-a-a-a 1
    Daniil Kvyat-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 1-a-a-a-a 1-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a -
    Kevin Magnussen-a-a-a-a 1-a-a-a-a 1-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a -
    Nico Rosberg-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 1-a-a-a-a 1-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a -
    Lance Stroll-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 1-a-a-a-a --a-a-a 1-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a -
    George Russell-a-a-a-a-a 1-a-a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a --a-a-a 1 -----------------------------------------------
    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 100-a-a-a 21-a-a 20-a-a 21-a-a 21-a-a 17

    2016

    Verstappen-a-a-a 8
    Vettel-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 3
    Perez-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 2
    Grosjean-a-a-a-a-a 2-a-a-a 6 others with 1 each

    2017

    Vettel-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 7
    Verstappen-a-a-a 3
    Hamilton-a-a-a-a-a 3
    Ricciardo-a-a-a-a 2-a-a-a 2 others

    2018

    Verstappen-a-a-a 6
    Ricciardo-a-a-a-a 4
    Vettel-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 3
    Hamilton-a-a-a-a-a 3
    Alonso-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 2-a-a-a 3 others

    2019

    Verstappen-a-a-a 7
    Leclerc-a-a-a-a-a-a 4
    Vettel-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 3

    2 - Bottas, Albon, Norris-a-a-a-a-a-a 1 other

    2020

    Verstappen-a-a-a 4
    Vettel-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 2
    Perez-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 2
    Gasly-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 2-a-a-a-a-a 7 others

    Thank you kindly Sir. As I thought (from scanning my memory), Max got more than 25%. He must be
    performing above his potential. ;)
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Martin Harran@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 15 08:23:43 2020
    rOn Sun, 13 Dec 2020 12:06:39 -0800 (PST), XYXPDQ <qwrtz123@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Except for the start and safety car that was complete snooze toward the front.

    Give it to Max.

    For what was eventually a bit of a parade, I think for different
    reasons, all the first 3 had really good drives:

    1) Max for a superb 1st (and my DotD too)

    2) Bottas for holding it together after all the dismay of the last few
    races - I thought he would crown it all by losing it completely on his
    final race.

    3) Hamilton for a creditable performance in the aftermath of Covid - I
    never expected him to win the race.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Martin Harran@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 15 08:26:05 2020
    On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 06:39:07 +0000, Brian Lawrence
    <Brian_W_Lawrence@msn.com> wrote:

    On 14/12/2020 03:52, ~misfit~ wrote:

    <snip>

    So was Hamilton 'getting' the British GP DotD a blackwash by F1? It did
    after all happen during a time of World-wide race riots (and was
    incidentally the only time ever that any driver has won their home GP 7
    times).

    I smell a rat...

    The FIA DotD has now been running for 5 seasons and exactly 100 races.
    These are the 'winners'.

    Max 24
    Seb 18
    Lewis 8
    RIC 8
    BOT 5 #
    LEC 5 #
    Kimi 4
    Checo 4
    Alex 3
    Pierre 3
    GRO 3

    # no awards in 2020

    Twice - ALO, NOR, HUL
    Once - KVY, MAG, ROS, STR, RUS

    Only the Hulk & George won in 2020.

    The Max fans are the most loyal.

    I think it is also due to the fact that Hamilton makes it look easier
    than it really is, which is yet another characteristic of a master
    craftsman.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From texas gate@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 15 05:30:33 2020
    On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 1:01:24 AM UTC-7, ~misfit~ wrote:

    He must be performing above his potential. ;)

    Yup, unlike an idiot loser like yourself,
    living on government handouts,
    crying the fucking the fucking blues.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)