• DotD - Russel

    From XYXPDQ@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Dec 6 20:03:27 2020
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From texas gate@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Dec 6 20:44:03 2020
    On Sunday, December 6, 2020 at 9:03:28 PM UTC-7, XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it.

    Hi john. Lay off the booze and form a sentence
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Dec 6 20:50:27 2020
    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From ~misfit~@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 17:50:38 2020
    On 7/12/2020 5:03 pm, XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it.

    I agree - but Russell has 2 x L at the end.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From texas gate@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Dec 6 20:57:53 2020
    On Sunday, December 6, 2020 at 9:50:41 PM UTC-7, ~misfit~ wrote:

    I agree - but Russell has 2 x L at the end.

    not to mention 3 x P up your pirating ass hole
    and 4 x C up your rotten cunt hole
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From texas gate@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Sun Dec 6 21:09:04 2020
    On Sunday, December 6, 2020 at 9:50:41 PM UTC-7, ~misfit~ wrote:

    I agree - but Russell has 2 x L at the end.

    you pirating piece of shit
    you got your download
    you cant pay your way in life
    so resort to theft
    there is no bigger loser than a thief
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 19:36:15 2020
    On 7/12/2020 5:50 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the
    it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    Agreed.

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Bigbird@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 07:02:39 2020
    geoff wrote:

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all
    he did in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    Agreed.


    We've seen plenty of drivers get in another teams car and fail
    miserably.

    It's fallacious to say that George only did what was expected. He was
    not expected to get the car off the line as well as he did no matter
    manage the tyres and make a series of passes some not simple take
    aways. Of course it helped that the most likely opposition scuppered
    itself at the start. There are dozens of ways to screw up during the
    race and many drivers did; George didn't... and after all the screw ups
    he still got his head down and rescued some points.

    I'm looking forward to see what he can do if in the car next week. Of
    course expectations will be higher. :)

    --
    Bozo bin
    Baby Baker
    Texasgate
    Enjoy!
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Martin Harran@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 08:29:35 2020
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it. >>

    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Did same apply to Bottas?


    Perez for certain.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 00:39:59 2020
    On 2020-12-07 12:29 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it. >>>

    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Did same apply to Bottas?

    Yup.

    If the team doesn't screw up, then the they most likely finish 1-2 and
    anyone here who claims to know which way around it would have been is
    fooling themselves.




    Perez for certain.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 22:23:49 2020
    On 7/12/2020 8:02 pm, Bigbird wrote:
    geoff wrote:

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all
    he did in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    Agreed.


    We've seen plenty of drivers get in another teams car and fail
    miserably.

    It's fallacious to say that George only did what was expected. He was
    not expected to get the car off the line as well as he did no matter
    manage the tyres and make a series of passes some not simple take
    aways. Of course it helped that the most likely opposition scuppered
    itself at the start. There are dozens of ways to screw up during the
    race and many drivers did; George didn't... and after all the screw ups
    he still got his head down and rescued some points.

    I'm looking forward to see what he can do if in the car next week. Of
    course expectations will be higher. :)


    Gut-wrenching that the team screwed him up.

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Martin Harran@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 10:11:02 2020
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 00:39:59 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 12:29 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it. >>>>

    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did >>> in the race was run as was expected.

    Did same apply to Bottas?

    Yup.

    If the team doesn't screw up, then the they most likely finish 1-2

    The sigificance of that order seems to escape you completely.


    and
    anyone here who claims to know which way around it would have been is >fooling themselves.




    Perez for certain.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Dex@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 10:22:44 2020
    On 07/12/2020 04:50, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the
    it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    No disrespect to Perez, but he was gifted the win. Russell overtaking
    Bottas at the start and all the overtaking after the pitlane cockups got
    him DOTD for me.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Martin Harran@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 11:19:31 2020
    On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 10:22:44 +0000, Dex <in@out.me.com> wrote:

    On 07/12/2020 04:50, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the
    it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    No disrespect to Perez, but he was gifted the win. Russell overtaking
    Bottas at the start and all the overtaking after the pitlane cockups got
    him DOTD for me.

    +1

    I said a couple of days ago "I think if he brings the car home in
    mid-field, that will be a significant achievement for his first drive
    in it." I didn't expect anything like the performance he turned in.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From crms...@gmail.com@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 03:35:22 2020
    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend?? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Matt Larkin@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 03:57:10 2020
    On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 11:35:23 UTC, crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend?? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939
    My feed was on an ad break when the gap fell from 8s to 5s, with both cars doing laps in the 1:0Xs.

    What happened in those laps? Did someone spin / bring out yellows that meant both the
    Mercs had to slow, and VB just gained a few seconds.

    The gap fell by 2-3s in one lap alone, didn't it?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Sir Tim@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 12:04:03 2020
    Dex <in@out.me.com> wrote:
    On 07/12/2020 04:50, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the
    it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    No disrespect to Perez, but he was gifted the win. Russell overtaking
    Bottas at the start and all the overtaking after the pitlane cockups got
    him DOTD for me.


    +1

    --
    Sir Tim
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From crms...@gmail.com@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 04:04:55 2020

    The gap fell by 2-3s in one lap alone, didn't it?

    Don't think it reduced that quickly, recall over a few consecutive laps.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Bigbird@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 12:14:14 2020
    geoff wrote:

    On 7/12/2020 8:02 pm, Bigbird wrote:
    geoff wrote:

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive,
    all he did in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    Agreed.


    We've seen plenty of drivers get in another teams car and fail
    miserably.

    It's fallacious to say that George only did what was expected. He
    was not expected to get the car off the line as well as he did no
    matter manage the tyres and make a series of passes some not simple
    take aways. Of course it helped that the most likely opposition
    scuppered itself at the start. There are dozens of ways to screw up
    during the race and many drivers did; George didn't... and after
    all the screw ups he still got his head down and rescued some
    points.

    I'm looking forward to see what he can do if in the car next week.
    Of course expectations will be higher. :)


    Gut-wrenching that the team screwed him up.


    Sure but it also gave him more opportunities to showcase so I don't
    feel that bad for him. The way he came back after both those pitstops
    was very positive. The people he needs to impress had probably already
    given him the win (even though Bottas may have had something to say
    about that) and just got more confirmation that he is a capable driver.

    --
    Bozo bin
    Baby Baker
    Texasgate
    Enjoy!
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Bigbird@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 12:23:13 2020
    Matt Larkin wrote:

    On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 11:35:23 UTC, crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to
    boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel
    gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each
    session. And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an
    even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR
    sailing serenely on. What isn't clear is how much he was
    controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5
    seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to
    the finish?? VB must be really downhearted after this weekend?? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939
    My feed was on an ad break when the gap fell from 8s to 5s, with both
    cars doing laps in the 1:0Xs.

    What happened in those laps? Did someone spin / bring out yellows
    that meant both the Mercs had to slow, and VB just gained a few
    seconds.

    The gap fell by 2-3s in one lap alone, didn't it?

    Virtual Safety car

    It was down to 7.5 (L54) then up to 9 during VSC then down to 5.6 (L56)
    on restart.

    --
    Bozo bin
    Baby Baker
    Texasgate
    Enjoy!
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From crms...@gmail.com@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 04:26:37 2020
    Virtual Safety car

    It was down to 7.5 (L54) then up to 9 during VSC then down to 5.6 (L56)
    on restart.

    Yes - from Motor Sport "The restart cost Russell a further three seconds as Bottas nailed the switch back to racing conditions, cutting the lead down to 5.5sec by lap 60."

    But such a shame but equally great to see Checo win.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Martin Harran@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 13:34:40 2020
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it. >>

    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55210939

    "The quality of Russell's performance needs a little context, for
    those who might be tempted to think it was simply proof that the
    Mercedes is the best car and anyone can win in it.

    It is the best car, and many drivers could, but that's not really the
    point.

    Russell had two days to prepare for his drive in the Mercedes. The car
    did not fit him. He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had
    to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in
    the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change
    and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers.

    And yet he qualified just 0.026 seconds off Bottas, who has been
    driving the car all year, beat the Finn off the line and led the race commandingly until a radio malfunction led to Bottas's front tyres
    being fitted to Russell's car at a pit stop under a safety car."
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Matt Larkin@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 06:59:01 2020
    On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 12:26:38 UTC, crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Virtual Safety car

    It was down to 7.5 (L54) then up to 9 during VSC then down to 5.6 (L56)
    on restart.
    Yes - from Motor Sport "The restart cost Russell a further three seconds as Bottas nailed the switch back to racing conditions, cutting the lead down to 5.5sec by lap 60."

    But such a shame but equally great to see Checo win.
    Three seconds is a lot to attribute to "nailing" a switch. Russell must have missed the signal.

    This was Latifi pulling off wasn't it? Created a VSC during an add break so I thought
    at the time Russell must have had an "off" as I hadn't spotted it on the live timing
    app.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Philip@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 16:44:12 2020
    In article <0a09a2cc-b9ec-4d62-a605-6edcdee625ebn@googlegroups.com>, crmstone@gmail.com says...

    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend?? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939

    Not half as downhearted as Hamilton must be! Russel has finally shown what many have said for a long time - it IS all down to the car.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From News@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 11:58:07 2020
    On 12/7/2020 11:44 AM, Philip wrote:
    In article <0a09a2cc-b9ec-4d62-a605-6edcdee625ebn@googlegroups.com>, crmstone@gmail.com says...

    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend??
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939

    Not half as downhearted as Hamilton must be! Russel has finally shown what many have said for a long time - it IS all down to the car.



    Bingo.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Mark@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 17:02:01 2020
    News <News@group.post> wrote:
    On 12/7/2020 11:44 AM, Philip wrote:
    In article <0a09a2cc-b9ec-4d62-a605-6edcdee625ebn@googlegroups.com>,
    crmstone@gmail.com says...

    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend??
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939

    Not half as downhearted as Hamilton must be! Russel has finally shown what >> many have said for a long time - it IS all down to the car.

    Bingo.

    You must all think Bottas is *really* rubbish!
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 09:05:39 2020
    On 2020-12-07 2:22 a.m., Dex wrote:
    On 07/12/2020 04:50, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the
    it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    No disrespect to Perez, but he was gifted the win. Russell overtaking
    Bottas at the start and all the overtaking after the pitlane cockups got
    him DOTD for me.

    Absolutely he was gifted the win...

    ...but his drive back from dead last in 18th place would still have
    merited him DotD.

    The DotD is often given to a driver who didn't win, so why exactly would
    one take it away just because the two cars that would almost certainly
    have been in front of him had problems?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 09:06:12 2020
    On 2020-12-07 2:11 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 00:39:59 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 12:29 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did >>>> in the race was run as was expected.

    Did same apply to Bottas?

    Yup.

    If the team doesn't screw up, then the they most likely finish 1-2

    The sigificance of that order seems to escape you completely.

    And here you are...

    ...not explaining what you mean.

    :-)
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 09:09:53 2020
    On 2020-12-07 4:04 a.m., Sir Tim wrote:
    Dex <in@out.me.com> wrote:
    On 07/12/2020 04:50, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the >>>> it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did >>> in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    No disrespect to Perez, but he was gifted the win. Russell overtaking
    Bottas at the start and all the overtaking after the pitlane cockups got
    him DOTD for me.


    +1


    Russell's overtake of Bottas was down to a Bottas error or a touch with Verstappen, so how does that show anything at all about Russell?

    And "all the overtaking" consisted in the main of cars that were hugely
    slower than the Mercedes (how many were already a lap down and therefore getting shown blue flags I wonder?).
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 09:11:26 2020
    On 2020-12-07 5:34 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it. >>>

    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55210939

    "The quality of Russell's performance needs a little context, for
    those who might be tempted to think it was simply proof that the
    Mercedes is the best car and anyone can win in it.

    It is the best car, and many drivers could, but that's not really the
    point.

    Russell had two days to prepare for his drive in the Mercedes. The car
    did not fit him. He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had
    to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in
    the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change
    and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers.

    And yet he qualified just 0.026 seconds off Bottas, who has been
    driving the car all year, beat the Finn off the line and led the race commandingly until a radio malfunction led to Bottas's front tyres
    being fitted to Russell's car at a pit stop under a safety car."


    That makes it DotW (Drive of the Weekend)...


    ...and I would definitely give THAT to Russell.

    :-)
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 09:11:51 2020
    On 2020-12-07 6:59 a.m., Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 12:26:38 UTC, crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Virtual Safety car

    It was down to 7.5 (L54) then up to 9 during VSC then down to 5.6 (L56)
    on restart.
    Yes - from Motor Sport "The restart cost Russell a further three seconds as Bottas nailed the switch back to racing conditions, cutting the lead down to 5.5sec by lap 60."

    But such a shame but equally great to see Checo win.
    Three seconds is a lot to attribute to "nailing" a switch. Russell must have missed the signal.

    This was Latifi pulling off wasn't it? Created a VSC during an add break so I thought
    at the time Russell must have had an "off" as I hadn't spotted it on the live timing
    app.


    I also think Russell was having a little trouble with engine modes.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 09:12:46 2020
    On 2020-12-07 8:44 a.m., Philip wrote:
    In article <0a09a2cc-b9ec-4d62-a605-6edcdee625ebn@googlegroups.com>, crmstone@gmail.com says...

    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend??
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939

    Not half as downhearted as Hamilton must be! Russel has finally shown what many have said for a long time - it IS all down to the car.


    Pretty much.

    Does anyone here want to state unequivocally that Hamilton could beat Russell... ...if Russell were actually given a Mercedes that fit him?

    :-)
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 09:13:24 2020
    On 2020-12-07 9:02 a.m., Mark wrote:
    News <News@group.post> wrote:
    On 12/7/2020 11:44 AM, Philip wrote:
    In article <0a09a2cc-b9ec-4d62-a605-6edcdee625ebn@googlegroups.com>,
    crmstone@gmail.com says...

    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend??
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939

    Not half as downhearted as Hamilton must be! Russel has finally shown what >>> many have said for a long time - it IS all down to the car.

    Bingo.

    You must all think Bottas is *really* rubbish!


    Nope. He doesn't have to be rubbish to be slower than Hamilton by a very
    small margin, now does he?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 09:14:35 2020
    On 2020-12-07 3:35 a.m., crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Stunning by George Russell. In a car set up/designed for LH's driving
    style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big
    for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session. And his start was amazing, given the
    lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB
    wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on. What isn't clear is how
    much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed
    from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to
    maintain to the finish?? VB must be really downhearted after this
    weekend?? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939


    Since you don't know how Russell might want a car set up for him, how
    can you possibly assume that a car set up for Hamilton was a detriment?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Mark@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 17:19:46 2020
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:02 a.m., Mark wrote:
    News <News@group.post> wrote:
    On 12/7/2020 11:44 AM, Philip wrote:
    In article <0a09a2cc-b9ec-4d62-a605-6edcdee625ebn@googlegroups.com>,
    crmstone@gmail.com says...

    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend??
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939

    Not half as downhearted as Hamilton must be! Russel has finally shown what >>>> many have said for a long time - it IS all down to the car.

    Bingo.

    You must all think Bottas is *really* rubbish!

    Nope. He doesn't have to be rubbish to be slower than Hamilton by a very small margin, now does he?

    Consistently. And Hamilton doesn't have to be a *lot* faster, so you
    don't know (as we've discussed) what his ultimate pace is. Do we?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 09:25:28 2020
    On 2020-12-07 9:19 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:02 a.m., Mark wrote:
    News <News@group.post> wrote:
    On 12/7/2020 11:44 AM, Philip wrote:
    In article <0a09a2cc-b9ec-4d62-a605-6edcdee625ebn@googlegroups.com>, >>>>> crmstone@gmail.com says...

    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend??
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939

    Not half as downhearted as Hamilton must be! Russel has finally shown what
    many have said for a long time - it IS all down to the car.

    Bingo.

    You must all think Bottas is *really* rubbish!

    Nope. He doesn't have to be rubbish to be slower than Hamilton by a very
    small margin, now does he?

    Consistently. And Hamilton doesn't have to be a *lot* faster, so you
    don't know (as we've discussed) what his ultimate pace is. Do we?


    Yes... ...very good.

    Being consistently a little bit slower than Hamilton means that Hamilton
    is a little better than Bottas.

    Very good.

    And don't know WHO's ultimate pace?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Mark@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 17:31:28 2020
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:19 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    Nope. He doesn't have to be rubbish to be slower than Hamilton by a very >>> small margin, now does he?

    Consistently. And Hamilton doesn't have to be a *lot* faster, so you
    don't know (as we've discussed) what his ultimate pace is. Do we?

    Yes... ...very good.

    Being consistently a little bit slower than Hamilton means that Hamilton
    is a little better than Bottas.

    Very good.

    And don't know WHO's ultimate pace?

    You really can't see the difference?

    Bottas wants to win (unless you believe he's a ringer).

    Therefore, he will push to the limit to catch and pass Hamilton. If
    he doesn't manage it (often), it means he's unable to match the pace.
    That *does* tell you about the ultimate pace of Bottas...but nothing
    about the ultimate pace of Hamilton. He often pulls out the additional
    .1s in quali or the race when he absolutely needs it, which suggests
    he's not right at the limit of what he can do.

    To use the famous quote of Prost:

    "I think maybe the English don't want to try something and look
    stupid, because they are a bit reserved. Without going to what I
    think is my limit. I always say that my ideal is to get pole
    with the minimum effort, and to win the race at the slowest
    speed possible. When I test I never go right to the limit."

    There is no point in stressing your car or yourself if you can win with
    less pace.

    Can you *still* not see the difference?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 09:49:36 2020
    On 2020-12-07 9:31 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:19 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    Nope. He doesn't have to be rubbish to be slower than Hamilton by a very >>>> small margin, now does he?

    Consistently. And Hamilton doesn't have to be a *lot* faster, so you
    don't know (as we've discussed) what his ultimate pace is. Do we?

    Yes... ...very good.

    Being consistently a little bit slower than Hamilton means that Hamilton
    is a little better than Bottas.

    Very good.

    And don't know WHO's ultimate pace?

    You really can't see the difference?

    The difference between what and what?


    Bottas wants to win (unless you believe he's a ringer).

    I agree.


    Therefore, he will push to the limit to catch and pass Hamilton. If

    Yup. He will push. Guess what: two evenly matched cars which are
    acknowledged not to do well in dirty air means that such efforts will
    mostly fail.


    he doesn't manage it (often), it means he's unable to match the pace.
    That *does* tell you about the ultimate pace of Bottas...but nothing
    about the ultimate pace of Hamilton. He often pulls out the additional

    Which is why I look at quali times, right.

    .1s in quali or the race when he absolutely needs it, which suggests
    he's not right at the limit of what he can do.

    Complete bullshit. You think he holds back in qualifying, because he's
    certain that he won't need the extra tenths that you think he's still
    got in the bag?


    To use the famous quote of Prost:

    "I think maybe the English don't want to try something and look
    stupid, because they are a bit reserved. Without going to what I
    think is my limit. I always say that my ideal is to get pole
    with the minimum effort, and to win the race at the slowest
    speed possible. When I test I never go right to the limit."

    "When I TEST:":.


    There is no point in stressing your car or yourself if you can win with
    less pace.

    Can you *still* not see the difference?

    I can see that you're assuming such a difference exists.

    If Hamilton is hold backing so much in qualifying...

    ...why has Bottas taken 4 pole positions when competing against Hamilton
    this year?

    Did Hamilton just forget to unleash his magic extra tenths?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Mark@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 18:06:23 2020
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:31 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:19 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    Nope. He doesn't have to be rubbish to be slower than Hamilton by a very >>>>> small margin, now does he?

    Consistently. And Hamilton doesn't have to be a *lot* faster, so you
    don't know (as we've discussed) what his ultimate pace is. Do we?

    Yes... ...very good.

    Being consistently a little bit slower than Hamilton means that Hamilton >>> is a little better than Bottas.

    Very good.

    And don't know WHO's ultimate pace?

    You really can't see the difference?

    The difference between what and what?

    The difference between what the pace on track means when you are coming
    in second as opposed to your pace when you're regularly first.
    Especially in qualifying.

    Bottas wants to win (unless you believe he's a ringer).

    I agree.

    Therefore, he will push to the limit to catch and pass Hamilton. If

    Yup. He will push. Guess what: two evenly matched cars which are acknowledged not to do well in dirty air means that such efforts will
    mostly fail.

    In the race, perhaps...but how does that explain qualifying?

    he doesn't manage it (often), it means he's unable to match the pace.
    That *does* tell you about the ultimate pace of Bottas...but nothing
    about the ultimate pace of Hamilton. He often pulls out the additional

    Which is why I look at quali times, right.

    Okay.

    .1s in quali or the race when he absolutely needs it, which suggests
    he's not right at the limit of what he can do.

    Complete bullshit. You think he holds back in qualifying, because he's certain that he won't need the extra tenths that you think he's still
    got in the bag?

    I think there are tracks where he is at his limit, and others where he
    knows he has Bottas beaten. My point is not that he doesn't, but that
    you can't *know* when he's at his limit. When you're losing out to your teammate again and again, a racer can't hold anything back. Therefore
    you can make some assumptions about Bottas's limits, but you can't be
    sure about Hamilton's.

    See what I mean?

    To use the famous quote of Prost:

    "I think maybe the English don't want to try something and look
    stupid, because they are a bit reserved. Without going to what I
    think is my limit. I always say that my ideal is to get pole
    with the minimum effort, and to win the race at the slowest
    speed possible. When I test I never go right to the limit."

    "When I TEST:":.

    "to win the race at the slowest speed possible"

    There is no point in stressing your car or yourself if you can win with
    less pace.

    Can you *still* not see the difference?

    I can see that you're assuming such a difference exists.

    Yes.

    If Hamilton is hold backing so much in qualifying...

    ...why has Bottas taken 4 pole positions when competing against Hamilton this year?

    Did Hamilton just forget to unleash his magic extra tenths?

    Sometimes, he just doesn't have the pace. Most of the time he does.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Martin Harran@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 18:21:13 2020
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:11:26 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 5:34 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it. >>>>

    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did >>> in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55210939

    "The quality of Russell's performance needs a little context, for
    those who might be tempted to think it was simply proof that the
    Mercedes is the best car and anyone can win in it.

    It is the best car, and many drivers could, but that's not really the
    point.

    Russell had two days to prepare for his drive in the Mercedes. The car
    did not fit him. He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had
    to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in
    the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change
    and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers.

    And yet he qualified just 0.026 seconds off Bottas, who has been
    driving the car all year, beat the Finn off the line and led the race
    commandingly until a radio malfunction led to Bottas's front tyres
    being fitted to Russell's car at a pit stop under a safety car."


    That makes it DotW (Drive of the Weekend)...


    ...and I would definitely give THAT to Russell.

    :-)

    So DotW but not DotD - fairly typical Baker logic.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Martin Harran@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 18:27:22 2020
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:14:35 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 3:35 a.m., crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Stunning by George Russell. In a car set up/designed for LH's driving
    style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big
    for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on
    bruising after each session. And his start was amazing, given the
    lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB
    wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on. What isn't clear is how
    much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed
    from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to
    maintain to the finish?? VB must be really downhearted after this
    weekend?? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939


    Since you don't know how Russell might want a car set up for him, how
    can you possibly assume that a car set up for Hamilton was a detriment?


    FFS, "He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had
    to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in
    the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change
    and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers."

    Only *you* could try to make out that that is not a detriment.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 10:35:19 2020
    On 2020-12-07 10:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:31 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:19 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    Nope. He doesn't have to be rubbish to be slower than Hamilton by a very >>>>>> small margin, now does he?

    Consistently. And Hamilton doesn't have to be a *lot* faster, so you >>>>> don't know (as we've discussed) what his ultimate pace is. Do we?

    Yes... ...very good.

    Being consistently a little bit slower than Hamilton means that Hamilton >>>> is a little better than Bottas.

    Very good.

    And don't know WHO's ultimate pace?

    You really can't see the difference?

    The difference between what and what?

    The difference between what the pace on track means when you are coming
    in second as opposed to your pace when you're regularly first.
    Especially in qualifying.

    Wow. You still wrote that. Amazing. ;-)


    Bottas wants to win (unless you believe he's a ringer).

    I agree.

    Therefore, he will push to the limit to catch and pass Hamilton. If

    Yup. He will push. Guess what: two evenly matched cars which are
    acknowledged not to do well in dirty air means that such efforts will
    mostly fail.

    In the race, perhaps...but how does that explain qualifying?

    Where the difference between is pretty much always minuscule...

    ...where Bottas has taken pole 4 times out of 15?


    he doesn't manage it (often), it means he's unable to match the pace.
    That *does* tell you about the ultimate pace of Bottas...but nothing
    about the ultimate pace of Hamilton. He often pulls out the additional

    Which is why I look at quali times, right.

    Okay.

    .1s in quali or the race when he absolutely needs it, which suggests
    he's not right at the limit of what he can do.

    Complete bullshit. You think he holds back in qualifying, because he's
    certain that he won't need the extra tenths that you think he's still
    got in the bag?

    I think there are tracks where he is at his limit, and others where he
    knows he has Bottas beaten. My point is not that he doesn't, but that
    you can't *know* when he's at his limit. When you're losing out to your teammate again and again, a racer can't hold anything back. Therefore
    you can make some assumptions about Bottas's limits, but you can't be
    sure about Hamilton's.

    See what I mean?

    I see that your argument is completely circular.

    What is the largest differential between Hamilton and Bottas in
    qualifying this year?

    It was the Styrian GP, where Bottas had a major screw up on his last run
    on a wet track.

    Aside from that, it has been just tenths. Put into percentages, Hamilton
    has been at best about half a percent quicker than Bottas.

    With that kind of margin, if you think he's holding back in qualifying,
    you are fully deluded about racing and racing drivers.

    You have another driver in the same car as you drive...

    ...and you know he has beaten you in qualifying...

    ...more than one time in four...

    ...and you think he's holding back?


    To use the famous quote of Prost:

    "I think maybe the English don't want to try something and look
    stupid, because they are a bit reserved. Without going to what I
    think is my limit. I always say that my ideal is to get pole
    with the minimum effort, and to win the race at the slowest
    speed possible. When I test I never go right to the limit."

    "When I TEST:":.

    "to win the race at the slowest speed possible"

    Yes: "the RACE".


    There is no point in stressing your car or yourself if you can win with
    less pace.

    Can you *still* not see the difference?

    I can see that you're assuming such a difference exists.

    Yes.

    If Hamilton is hold backing so much in qualifying...

    ...why has Bottas taken 4 pole positions when competing against Hamilton
    this year?

    Did Hamilton just forget to unleash his magic extra tenths?

    Sometimes, he just doesn't have the pace. Most of the time he does.

    And he's so far ahead of a driver he knows has beat him in qualifying
    more than 25% of the time that he holds back?

    Listen to yourself.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 10:36:02 2020
    On 2020-12-07 10:21 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:11:26 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 5:34 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did >>>> in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55210939

    "The quality of Russell's performance needs a little context, for
    those who might be tempted to think it was simply proof that the
    Mercedes is the best car and anyone can win in it.

    It is the best car, and many drivers could, but that's not really the
    point.

    Russell had two days to prepare for his drive in the Mercedes. The car
    did not fit him. He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had
    to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in
    the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change
    and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers.

    And yet he qualified just 0.026 seconds off Bottas, who has been
    driving the car all year, beat the Finn off the line and led the race
    commandingly until a radio malfunction led to Bottas's front tyres
    being fitted to Russell's car at a pit stop under a safety car."


    That makes it DotW (Drive of the Weekend)...


    ...and I would definitely give THAT to Russell.

    :-)

    So DotW but not DotD - fairly typical Baker logic.


    What is wrong with that logic?

    The two are distinctly different.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 10:38:24 2020
    On 2020-12-07 10:27 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:14:35 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 3:35 a.m., crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Stunning by George Russell. In a car set up/designed for LH's driving
    style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big
    for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on
    bruising after each session. And his start was amazing, given the
    lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB
    wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on. What isn't clear is how
    much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed
    from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to
    maintain to the finish?? VB must be really downhearted after this
    weekend?? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939


    Since you don't know how Russell might want a car set up for him, how
    can you possibly assume that a car set up for Hamilton was a detriment?


    FFS, "He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had
    to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in
    the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change
    and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers."

    Only *you* could try to make out that that is not a detriment.


    I didn't say THAT wasn't a detriment. Can't you read?

    'In a car set up/designed for LH's driving STYLE'.

    And I'll tell you a little secret:

    I get bruises every race weekend. So does pretty much every driver of a tube-frame open wheel car.

    It doesn't affect how I drive at all, and I don't even feel it happening
    in the car.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Mark@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 18:50:51 2020
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 10:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:31 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:19 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    Nope. He doesn't have to be rubbish to be slower than Hamilton by a very
    small margin, now does he?

    Consistently. And Hamilton doesn't have to be a *lot* faster, so you >>>>>> don't know (as we've discussed) what his ultimate pace is. Do we?

    Yes... ...very good.

    Being consistently a little bit slower than Hamilton means that Hamilton >>>>> is a little better than Bottas.

    Very good.

    And don't know WHO's ultimate pace?

    You really can't see the difference?

    The difference between what and what?

    The difference between what the pace on track means when you are coming
    in second as opposed to your pace when you're regularly first.
    Especially in qualifying.

    Wow. You still wrote that. Amazing. ;-)

    PKB.

    Anyway, I'll respond this one time. I'll play it straight but I will
    note here that you are not actually addressing my point and explicitly
    restate it at the end.

    Bottas wants to win (unless you believe he's a ringer).

    I agree.

    Therefore, he will push to the limit to catch and pass Hamilton. If

    Yup. He will push. Guess what: two evenly matched cars which are
    acknowledged not to do well in dirty air means that such efforts will
    mostly fail.

    In the race, perhaps...but how does that explain qualifying?

    Where the difference between is pretty much always minuscule...

    ...where Bottas has taken pole 4 times out of 15?

    Yes. 4 is much smaller than 10 you know.

    he doesn't manage it (often), it means he's unable to match the pace.
    That *does* tell you about the ultimate pace of Bottas...but nothing
    about the ultimate pace of Hamilton. He often pulls out the additional >>>
    Which is why I look at quali times, right.

    Okay.

    .1s in quali or the race when he absolutely needs it, which suggests
    he's not right at the limit of what he can do.

    Complete bullshit. You think he holds back in qualifying, because he's
    certain that he won't need the extra tenths that you think he's still
    got in the bag?

    I think there are tracks where he is at his limit, and others where he
    knows he has Bottas beaten. My point is not that he doesn't, but that
    you can't *know* when he's at his limit. When you're losing out to your
    teammate again and again, a racer can't hold anything back. Therefore
    you can make some assumptions about Bottas's limits, but you can't be
    sure about Hamilton's.

    See what I mean?

    I see that your argument is completely circular.

    What is the largest differential between Hamilton and Bottas in
    qualifying this year?

    It was the Styrian GP, where Bottas had a major screw up on his last run
    on a wet track.

    And?

    Aside from that, it has been just tenths. Put into percentages, Hamilton
    has been at best about half a percent quicker than Bottas.

    And?

    With that kind of margin, if you think he's holding back in qualifying,
    you are fully deluded about racing and racing drivers.

    You have another driver in the same car as you drive...

    ...and you know he has beaten you in qualifying...

    ...more than one time in four...

    ...and you think he's holding back?

    These things are relative. When you believe you have the edge, you
    don't take the risks on the kerbs or take quite the same risk. Yes, I
    believe that on those tracks where he feels very confident and where he
    feels that the telemetry and the FP sessions overall suggest that he
    will get the pole, he won't push quite as hard as where he thinks Bottas
    has the edge on him. These things are relative, as pushing just a
    little *too* hard can spell disaster.

    As you should know.

    If you think that every driver goes right to the edge at every
    possibility, I think you're the deluded one. You have to keep your
    powder dry at times...

    To use the famous quote of Prost:

    "I think maybe the English don't want to try something and look >>>> stupid, because they are a bit reserved. Without going to what I >>>> think is my limit. I always say that my ideal is to get pole
    with the minimum effort, and to win the race at the slowest
    speed possible. When I test I never go right to the limit."

    "When I TEST:":.

    "to win the race at the slowest speed possible"

    Yes: "the RACE".

    Okay: "my ideal is to get pole with the minimum effort".

    What's your point?

    There is no point in stressing your car or yourself if you can win with >>>> less pace.

    Can you *still* not see the difference?

    I can see that you're assuming such a difference exists.

    Yes.

    If Hamilton is hold backing so much in qualifying...

    ...why has Bottas taken 4 pole positions when competing against Hamilton >>> this year?

    Did Hamilton just forget to unleash his magic extra tenths?

    Sometimes, he just doesn't have the pace. Most of the time he does.

    And he's so far ahead of a driver he knows has beat him in qualifying
    more than 25% of the time that he holds back?

    Listen to yourself.

    You're talking as though every track and every situation is exactly the
    same. I'm suggesting that there are *times* he needn't put the 100% and
    99.9% or even 99% is enough. When you don't think you're going to get
    pole or the win, you go (as far as you can) for 100%.

    So...my point (if you were actually listening) was that the person who
    is second is very likely to be giving it 100%, but it's hard to know if
    the person leading is. You can't extrapolate from one to the other.

    With that, I give up.

    Feel free to continue, though.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Martin Harran@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 19:34:18 2020
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:38:24 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 10:27 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:14:35 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 3:35 a.m., crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Stunning by George Russell. In a car set up/designed for LH's driving
    style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big
    for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on
    bruising after each session. And his start was amazing, given the
    lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB
    wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on. What isn't clear is how
    much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed
    from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to
    maintain to the finish?? VB must be really downhearted after this
    weekend?? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939


    Since you don't know how Russell might want a car set up for him, how
    can you possibly assume that a car set up for Hamilton was a detriment?


    FFS, "He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had
    to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in
    the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change
    and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers."

    Only *you* could try to make out that that is not a detriment.


    I didn't say THAT wasn't a detriment. Can't you read?

    'In a car set up/designed for LH's driving STYLE'.

    And I'll tell you a little secret:

    I get bruises every race weekend. So does pretty much every driver of a >tube-frame open wheel car.

    It doesn't affect how I drive at all, and I don't even feel it happening
    in the car.


    As I said earlier, you seem to think your driving is on a par with F1.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Martin Harran@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 19:35:29 2020
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:36:02 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 10:21 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:11:26 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 5:34 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did >>>>> in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55210939

    "The quality of Russell's performance needs a little context, for
    those who might be tempted to think it was simply proof that the
    Mercedes is the best car and anyone can win in it.

    It is the best car, and many drivers could, but that's not really the
    point.

    Russell had two days to prepare for his drive in the Mercedes. The car >>>> did not fit him. He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had >>>> to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in
    the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change
    and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers.

    And yet he qualified just 0.026 seconds off Bottas, who has been
    driving the car all year, beat the Finn off the line and led the race
    commandingly until a radio malfunction led to Bottas's front tyres
    being fitted to Russell's car at a pit stop under a safety car."


    That makes it DotW (Drive of the Weekend)...


    ...and I would definitely give THAT to Russell.

    :-)

    So DotW but not DotD - fairly typical Baker logic.


    What is wrong with that logic?

    The two are distinctly different.

    Yes, in Bakerland where normal rules of logic go out the window.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 12:28:53 2020
    On 2020-12-07 11:35 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:36:02 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 10:21 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:11:26 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 5:34 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did >>>>>> in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55210939

    "The quality of Russell's performance needs a little context, for
    those who might be tempted to think it was simply proof that the
    Mercedes is the best car and anyone can win in it.

    It is the best car, and many drivers could, but that's not really the >>>>> point.

    Russell had two days to prepare for his drive in the Mercedes. The car >>>>> did not fit him. He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had >>>>> to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in >>>>> the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change >>>>> and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers.

    And yet he qualified just 0.026 seconds off Bottas, who has been
    driving the car all year, beat the Finn off the line and led the race >>>>> commandingly until a radio malfunction led to Bottas's front tyres
    being fitted to Russell's car at a pit stop under a safety car."


    That makes it DotW (Drive of the Weekend)...


    ...and I would definitely give THAT to Russell.

    :-)

    So DotW but not DotD - fairly typical Baker logic.


    What is wrong with that logic?

    The two are distinctly different.

    Yes, in Bakerland where normal rules of logic go out the window.


    I notice you can't actually articulate a rebuttal...
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Bigbird@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 20:29:51 2020
    Matt Larkin wrote:

    On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 12:26:38 UTC, crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Virtual Safety car

    It was down to 7.5 (L54) then up to 9 during VSC then down to 5.6
    (L56) on restart.
    Yes - from Motor Sport "The restart cost Russell a further three
    seconds as Bottas nailed the switch back to racing conditions,
    cutting the lead down to 5.5sec by lap 60."

    But such a shame but equally great to see Checo win.
    Three seconds is a lot to attribute to "nailing" a switch. Russell
    must have missed the signal.


    3 seconds is a misrepresentation. The gaps naturally widen under the
    safety car.
    The gap just before the VSC was 7.3 just after it was 6.4 so George did
    lose some time under the VSC but not that much. However he also lost
    nearly another 8 tenths in the second sector of lap56 which was the
    first full sector after the VSC. So he was slower to get back on the
    pace.

    IOW reaction time did not play a big part.

    --
    Bozo bin
    Baby Baker
    Texasgate
    Enjoy!
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Bigbird@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 20:36:13 2020
    Martin Harran wrote:


    As I said earlier, you seem to think your driving is on a par with F1.

    The boy put up a shelf once; now he thinks he knows more than anybody
    else about building a house.

    --
    Bozo bin
    Baby Baker
    Texasgate
    Enjoy!
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 12:36:23 2020
    On 2020-12-07 10:50 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 10:06 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:31 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 9:19 a.m., Mark wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    Nope. He doesn't have to be rubbish to be slower than Hamilton by a very
    small margin, now does he?

    Consistently. And Hamilton doesn't have to be a *lot* faster, so you >>>>>>> don't know (as we've discussed) what his ultimate pace is. Do we? >>>>>>
    Yes... ...very good.

    Being consistently a little bit slower than Hamilton means that Hamilton >>>>>> is a little better than Bottas.

    Very good.

    And don't know WHO's ultimate pace?

    You really can't see the difference?

    The difference between what and what?

    The difference between what the pace on track means when you are coming
    in second as opposed to your pace when you're regularly first.
    Especially in qualifying.

    Wow. You still wrote that. Amazing. ;-)

    PKB.

    Anyway, I'll respond this one time. I'll play it straight but I will
    note here that you are not actually addressing my point and explicitly restate it at the end.

    Bottas wants to win (unless you believe he's a ringer).

    I agree.

    Therefore, he will push to the limit to catch and pass Hamilton. If

    Yup. He will push. Guess what: two evenly matched cars which are
    acknowledged not to do well in dirty air means that such efforts will
    mostly fail.

    In the race, perhaps...but how does that explain qualifying?

    Where the difference between is pretty much always minuscule...

    ...where Bottas has taken pole 4 times out of 15?

    Yes. 4 is much smaller than 10 you know.

    Yes. And I've always maintained that Hamilton is better than Bottas, so...


    he doesn't manage it (often), it means he's unable to match the pace. >>>>> That *does* tell you about the ultimate pace of Bottas...but nothing >>>>> about the ultimate pace of Hamilton. He often pulls out the additional >>>>
    Which is why I look at quali times, right.

    Okay.

    .1s in quali or the race when he absolutely needs it, which suggests >>>>> he's not right at the limit of what he can do.

    Complete bullshit. You think he holds back in qualifying, because he's >>>> certain that he won't need the extra tenths that you think he's still
    got in the bag?

    I think there are tracks where he is at his limit, and others where he
    knows he has Bottas beaten. My point is not that he doesn't, but that
    you can't *know* when he's at his limit. When you're losing out to your >>> teammate again and again, a racer can't hold anything back. Therefore
    you can make some assumptions about Bottas's limits, but you can't be
    sure about Hamilton's.

    See what I mean?

    I see that your argument is completely circular.

    What is the largest differential between Hamilton and Bottas in
    qualifying this year?

    It was the Styrian GP, where Bottas had a major screw up on his last run
    on a wet track.

    And?

    Aside from that, it has been just tenths. Put into percentages, Hamilton
    has been at best about half a percent quicker than Bottas.

    And?

    And therefore the difference in their talent levels is also probably small.

    Occam's Razor: ever hear of it?


    With that kind of margin, if you think he's holding back in qualifying,
    you are fully deluded about racing and racing drivers.

    You have another driver in the same car as you drive...

    ...and you know he has beaten you in qualifying...

    ...more than one time in four...

    ...and you think he's holding back?

    These things are relative. When you believe you have the edge, you
    don't take the risks on the kerbs or take quite the same risk. Yes, I believe that on those tracks where he feels very confident and where he
    feels that the telemetry and the FP sessions overall suggest that he
    will get the pole, he won't push quite as hard as where he thinks Bottas
    has the edge on him. These things are relative, as pushing just a
    little *too* hard can spell disaster.

    Your belief is literally based on nothing at all.


    As you should know.

    If you think that every driver goes right to the edge at every
    possibility, I think you're the deluded one. You have to keep your
    powder dry at times...

    I think when you're in qualifying...

    ...and you know both that: your teammate has beaten you before, AND that
    your car is not good in dirty air...

    ...you try your hardest every single time.


    To use the famous quote of Prost:

    "I think maybe the English don't want to try something and look >>>>> stupid, because they are a bit reserved. Without going to what I >>>>> think is my limit. I always say that my ideal is to get pole >>>>> with the minimum effort, and to win the race at the slowest
    speed possible. When I test I never go right to the limit." >>>>
    "When I TEST:":.

    "to win the race at the slowest speed possible"

    Yes: "the RACE".

    Okay: "my ideal is to get pole with the minimum effort".

    What's your point?

    Among other things, that that was a different time, when drivers could
    see exactly what their teammates had done and then go out and set a time
    of their own.

    Prost retired in 1993, and so never once had to qualify where both
    drivers went out at the last for one all out lap.

    Why in the world do you imagine that you wouldn't push as hard as you
    could when you KNOW that even you are capable of making a TINY mistake
    that then leaves you too far behind to make it up in the rest of the lap?


    There is no point in stressing your car or yourself if you can win with >>>>> less pace.

    Can you *still* not see the difference?

    I can see that you're assuming such a difference exists.

    Yes.

    If Hamilton is hold backing so much in qualifying...

    ...why has Bottas taken 4 pole positions when competing against Hamilton >>>> this year?

    Did Hamilton just forget to unleash his magic extra tenths?

    Sometimes, he just doesn't have the pace. Most of the time he does.

    And he's so far ahead of a driver he knows has beat him in qualifying
    more than 25% of the time that he holds back?

    Listen to yourself.

    You're talking as though every track and every situation is exactly the
    same. I'm suggesting that there are *times* he needn't put the 100% and 99.9% or even 99% is enough. When you don't think you're going to get
    pole or the win, you go (as far as you can) for 100%.

    But your thinking is based on what actual facts? Any. Have you got
    anything you can point to that suggests that has ever actually happened?


    So...my point (if you were actually listening) was that the person who
    is second is very likely to be giving it 100%, but it's hard to know if
    the person leading is. You can't extrapolate from one to the other.

    No. It is NOT hard to now. Not when they are consistently that close.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 12:37:44 2020
    On 2020-12-07 11:34 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:38:24 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 10:27 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:14:35 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 3:35 a.m., crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Stunning by George Russell. In a car set up/designed for LH's driving >>>>> style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big >>>>> for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on >>>>> bruising after each session. And his start was amazing, given the
    lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB
    wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on. What isn't clear is how
    much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed
    from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to
    maintain to the finish?? VB must be really downhearted after this
    weekend?? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939


    Since you don't know how Russell might want a car set up for him, how
    can you possibly assume that a car set up for Hamilton was a detriment? >>>

    FFS, "He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had
    to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in
    the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change
    and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers."

    Only *you* could try to make out that that is not a detriment.


    I didn't say THAT wasn't a detriment. Can't you read?

    'In a car set up/designed for LH's driving STYLE'.

    And I'll tell you a little secret:

    I get bruises every race weekend. So does pretty much every driver of a
    tube-frame open wheel car.

    It doesn't affect how I drive at all, and I don't even feel it happening
    in the car.


    As I said earlier, you seem to think your driving is on a par with F1.


    Nope.

    I'm just giving you some insight into what one feels when one is racing.

    This may be Greek to you, but the intensity in racing doesn't vary a
    whole lot with the speed of the machinery.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 12:41:57 2020
    On 2020-12-07 12:29 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Matt Larkin wrote:

    On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 12:26:38 UTC, crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Virtual Safety car

    It was down to 7.5 (L54) then up to 9 during VSC then down to 5.6
    (L56) on restart.
    Yes - from Motor Sport "The restart cost Russell a further three
    seconds as Bottas nailed the switch back to racing conditions,
    cutting the lead down to 5.5sec by lap 60."

    But such a shame but equally great to see Checo win.
    Three seconds is a lot to attribute to "nailing" a switch. Russell
    must have missed the signal.


    3 seconds is a misrepresentation. The gaps naturally widen under the
    safety car.
    The gap just before the VSC was 7.3 just after it was 6.4 so George did
    lose some time under the VSC but not that much. However he also lost
    nearly another 8 tenths in the second sector of lap56 which was the
    first full sector after the VSC. So he was slower to get back on the
    pace.

    IOW reaction time did not play a big part.


    As I said, I suspect his unfamiliarity with the car probably cost him
    when trying to get the engine in the right mode.

    Does anyone know if there are transcripts of all the team radio messages
    to and from the drivers?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 12:44:53 2020
    On 2020-12-07 12:36 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Martin Harran wrote:


    As I said earlier, you seem to think your driving is on a par with F1.

    The boy put up a shelf once; now he thinks he knows more than anybody
    else about building a house.


    Actually, among the things I've done is produce the construction
    drawings for a full new house build.

    :-)
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 12:49:24 2020
    On 2020-12-07 12:36 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
    Martin Harran wrote:


    As I said earlier, you seem to think your driving is on a par with F1.

    The boy put up a shelf once; now he thinks he knows more than anybody
    else about building a house.


    BTW, I've also been a ski racer and instructor.

    And I've competed in sailing at the world championship level.

    :-)
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Martin Harran@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 22:05:13 2020
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 12:28:53 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 11:35 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:36:02 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 10:21 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:11:26 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 5:34 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55210939

    "The quality of Russell's performance needs a little context, for
    those who might be tempted to think it was simply proof that the
    Mercedes is the best car and anyone can win in it.

    It is the best car, and many drivers could, but that's not really the >>>>>> point.

    Russell had two days to prepare for his drive in the Mercedes. The car >>>>>> did not fit him. He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had >>>>>> to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in >>>>>> the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the >>>>>> end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change >>>>>> and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers.

    And yet he qualified just 0.026 seconds off Bottas, who has been
    driving the car all year, beat the Finn off the line and led the race >>>>>> commandingly until a radio malfunction led to Bottas's front tyres >>>>>> being fitted to Russell's car at a pit stop under a safety car."


    That makes it DotW (Drive of the Weekend)...


    ...and I would definitely give THAT to Russell.

    :-)

    So DotW but not DotD - fairly typical Baker logic.


    What is wrong with that logic?

    The two are distinctly different.

    Yes, in Bakerland where normal rules of logic go out the window.


    I notice you can't actually articulate a rebuttal...

    I'll settle for "Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to
    his level and beat you with experience."
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 8 11:18:02 2020
    On 7/12/2020 11:22 pm, Dex wrote:
    On 07/12/2020 04:50, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the
    it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    No disrespect to Perez, but he was gifted the win. Russell overtaking
    Bottas at the start and all the overtaking after the pitlane cockups got
    him DOTD for me.


    Yes, but he may still have ended up 3rd or 4th, which would have itself warranted GOAT, ooops DOD.

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 8 11:22:51 2020
    On 8/12/2020 6:02 am, Mark wrote:
    News <News@group.post> wrote:
    On 12/7/2020 11:44 AM, Philip wrote:
    In article <0a09a2cc-b9ec-4d62-a605-6edcdee625ebn@googlegroups.com>,
    crmstone@gmail.com says...

    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend??
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939

    Not half as downhearted as Hamilton must be! Russel has finally shown what >>> many have said for a long time - it IS all down to the car.

    Bingo.

    You must all think Bottas is *really* rubbish!


    Just shows what a poor judge of driving ability Merc is.

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 8 11:24:13 2020
    On 8/12/2020 5:44 am, Philip wrote:
    In article <0a09a2cc-b9ec-4d62-a605-6edcdee625ebn@googlegroups.com>, crmstone@gmail.com says...

    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to approx 5?? And what gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend??
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939

    Not half as downhearted as Hamilton must be! Russel has finally shown what many have said for a long time - it IS all down to the car.


    Yeah. Russell is clearly GOAT.

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 8 11:26:19 2020
    On 8/12/2020 6:12 am, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 8:44 a.m., Philip wrote:
    In article <0a09a2cc-b9ec-4d62-a605-6edcdee625ebn@googlegroups.com>,
    crmstone@gmail.com says...

    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to
    boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel
    gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each
    session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better
    demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing
    serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the pit
    stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to-a approx 5??-a And what gap he >>> was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend??
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939

    Not half as downhearted as Hamilton must be! Russel has finally shown
    what
    many have said for a long time - it IS all down to the car.


    Pretty much.

    Does anyone here want to state unequivocally that Hamilton could beat Russell... ...if Russell were actually given a Mercedes that fit him?

    :-)

    Certainly not you, that's for sure.

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 8 11:28:43 2020
    On 8/12/2020 1:04 am, Sir Tim wrote:
    Dex <in@out.me.com> wrote:
    On 07/12/2020 04:50, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the >>>> it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did >>> in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    No disrespect to Perez, but he was gifted the win. Russell overtaking
    Bottas at the start and all the overtaking after the pitlane cockups got
    him DOTD for me.


    +1



    And PER last to first didn't....

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 8 11:30:47 2020
    On 8/12/2020 2:34 am, Martin Harran wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it. >>>

    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55210939

    "The quality of Russell's performance needs a little context, for
    those who might be tempted to think it was simply proof that the
    Mercedes is the best car and anyone can win in it.

    It is the best car, and many drivers could, but that's not really the
    point.

    Russell had two days to prepare for his drive in the Mercedes. The car
    did not fit him. He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had
    to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in
    the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change
    and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers.

    And yet he qualified just 0.026 seconds off Bottas, who has been
    driving the car all year, beat the Finn off the line and led the race commandingly until a radio malfunction led to Bottas's front tyres
    being fitted to Russell's car at a pit stop under a safety car."



    Yeah but don't forget that BOT's car has been crippled to ensure that
    HAM wins all the time !

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 8 11:36:01 2020
    On 8/12/2020 7:27 am, Martin Harran wrote:



    FFS, "He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had
    to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in
    the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the
    end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change
    and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers."

    Only *you* could try to make out that that is not a detriment.




    That extra height is an added benefit. He can easily push the
    accelerator much further. In fact it is harder for him to ease off.

    And the smaller cramped boot make him want to get to the end sooner (ie faster).

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 15:04:11 2020
    On 2020-12-07 2:05 p.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 12:28:53 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 11:35 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:36:02 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 10:21 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:11:26 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-07 5:34 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 20:50:27 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-06 8:03 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:
    DotD - not a question

    More than honorable mention to Perez, any other weekend an he'd be the it.


    I'm sorry, but no.

    He was in the best car and while is DOTW was very impressive, all he did
    in the race was run as was expected.

    Perez for certain.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55210939

    "The quality of Russell's performance needs a little context, for >>>>>>> those who might be tempted to think it was simply proof that the >>>>>>> Mercedes is the best car and anyone can win in it.

    It is the best car, and many drivers could, but that's not really the >>>>>>> point.

    Russell had two days to prepare for his drive in the Mercedes. The car >>>>>>> did not fit him. He is five inches (14cm) taller than Hamilton, he had >>>>>>> to wear boots that were one size too small to fit his size 11 feet in >>>>>>> the cockpit and operate the pedals, he needed ice on bruises at the >>>>>>> end of every day in the car, and he was using Hamilton's gear change >>>>>>> and clutch paddles, which were too small for his fingers.

    And yet he qualified just 0.026 seconds off Bottas, who has been >>>>>>> driving the car all year, beat the Finn off the line and led the race >>>>>>> commandingly until a radio malfunction led to Bottas's front tyres >>>>>>> being fitted to Russell's car at a pit stop under a safety car." >>>>>>>

    That makes it DotW (Drive of the Weekend)...


    ...and I would definitely give THAT to Russell.

    :-)

    So DotW but not DotD - fairly typical Baker logic.


    What is wrong with that logic?

    The two are distinctly different.

    Yes, in Bakerland where normal rules of logic go out the window.


    I notice you can't actually articulate a rebuttal...

    I'll settle for "Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to
    his level and beat you with experience."


    Yes... ...that's certainly easier than having to make an actual argument.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 15:04:42 2020
    On 2020-12-07 2:26 p.m., geoff wrote:
    On 8/12/2020 6:12 am, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-07 8:44 a.m., Philip wrote:
    In article <0a09a2cc-b9ec-4d62-a605-6edcdee625ebn@googlegroups.com>,
    crmstone@gmail.com says...

    Stunning by George Russell.
    In a car set up/designed for LH's driving style, wrong size car to
    boot, boots a size too small, hands too big for LH's steering wheel
    gear and clutch levers and requiring icing on bruising after each
    session.
    And his start was amazing, given the lever sizes, and an even better
    demonstration at Turn 2 with VB wiggling about and GR sailing
    serenely on.
    What isn't clear is how much he was controlling the gap after the
    pit stops when VB closed from 8.5 seconds to-a approx 5??-a And what
    gap he was planning to maintain to the finish??
    VB must be really downhearted after this weekend??
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55210939

    Not half as downhearted as Hamilton must be! Russel has finally shown
    what
    many have said for a long time - it IS all down to the car.


    Pretty much.

    Does anyone here want to state unequivocally that Hamilton could beat
    Russell... ...if Russell were actually given a Mercedes that fit him?

    :-)

    Certainly not you, that's for sure.

    Because the facts don't support it.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From ~misfit~@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 8 12:34:00 2020
    On 8/12/2020 3:59 am, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 12:26:38 UTC, crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Virtual Safety car

    It was down to 7.5 (L54) then up to 9 during VSC then down to 5.6 (L56)
    on restart.
    Yes - from Motor Sport "The restart cost Russell a further three seconds as Bottas nailed the switch back to racing conditions, cutting the lead down to 5.5sec by lap 60."

    But such a shame but equally great to see Checo win.
    Three seconds is a lot to attribute to "nailing" a switch. Russell must have missed the signal.

    This was Latifi pulling off wasn't it? Created a VSC during an add break so I thought
    at the time Russell must have had an "off" as I hadn't spotted it on the live timing
    app.

    Russell didn't have an off.

    Where a car is on track at the end of a safety car period makes a huge difference to them. If
    you're at the start of a straight you floor it. If you're just entering a slow speed corner /
    chicane you can't do that and it can take seconds until you're back up to racing speed.
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
    in the DSM"
    David Melville

    This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Dec 7 15:49:42 2020
    On 2020-12-07 3:34 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    On 8/12/2020 3:59 am, Matt Larkin wrote:
    On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 12:26:38 UTC, crms...@gmail.com wrote:
    Virtual Safety car

    It was down to 7.5 (L54) then up to 9 during VSC then down to 5.6 (L56) >>>> on restart.
    Yes - from Motor Sport "The restart cost Russell a further three
    seconds as Bottas nailed the switch back to racing conditions,
    cutting the lead down to 5.5sec by lap 60."

    But such a shame but equally great to see Checo win.
    Three seconds is a lot to attribute to "nailing" a switch.-a Russell
    must have
    missed the signal.

    This was Latifi pulling off wasn't it?-a Created a VSC during an add
    break so I thought
    at the time Russell must have had an "off" as I hadn't spotted it on
    the live timing
    app.

    Russell didn't have an off.

    Where a car is on track at the end of a safety car period makes a huge difference to them. If you're at the start of a straight you floor it.
    If you're just entering a slow speed corner / chicane you can't do that
    and it can take seconds until you're back up to racing speed.

    No one suggested Russell had an off.
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