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  • Grosjean

    From texas gate@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Nov 30 00:23:11 2020
    Cuts off competitor
    and gets sent into the armco. Wow
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From alister@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon Nov 30 14:29:54 2020
    On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 00:23:11 -0800, texas gate wrote:

    Cuts off competitor and gets sent into the armco. Wow

    "maybe your whore mother you heartless piece of shit"



    --
    If you can't understand it, it is intuitively obvious.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Tue Dec 1 22:31:45 2020
    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor
    and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at 140mph plus?

    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From nospam@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Dec 2 12:43:32 2020
    On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:31:45 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor
    and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at 140mph plus?

    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>

    As you are a racing driver what's your take on what Grosjean did?


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Matt Larkin@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Dec 2 08:15:56 2020
    On Wednesday, 2 December 2020 at 12:43:35 UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:31:45 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor
    and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at 140mph plus?

    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>
    As you are a racing driver what's your take on what Grosjean did?


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    Grosjean made a mistake. He didn't deliberately drive into Kyvyat.

    Blind spots, red mist, not thinking clearly. Whatever - it wasn't intentional.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Dec 2 14:25:55 2020
    On 2020-12-02 4:43 a.m., AnthonyL wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:31:45 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor
    and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at 140mph plus? >>
    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>

    As you are a racing driver what's your take on what Grosjean did?



    I think he overreacted to the situation that developed in front of him
    and moved right into a car that he couldn't see in his mirrors.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Sir Tim@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Wed Dec 2 23:26:45 2020
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-02 4:43 a.m., AnthonyL wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:31:45 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor
    and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at 140mph plus? >>>
    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>

    As you are a racing driver what's your take on what Grosjean did?



    I think he overreacted to the situation that developed in front of him
    and moved right into a car that he couldn't see in his mirrors.


    That was the way I saw it too.

    --
    Sir Tim
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From keithr0@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Thu Dec 3 17:27:29 2020
    On 12/3/2020 9:26 AM, Sir Tim wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-02 4:43 a.m., AnthonyL wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:31:45 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor
    and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at 140mph plus?

    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>

    As you are a racing driver what's your take on what Grosjean did?



    I think he overreacted to the situation that developed in front of him
    and moved right into a car that he couldn't see in his mirrors.


    That was the way I saw it too.

    Counter intuitively, I think that Grosjean was lucky to hit the join
    between two pieces of Armco. The deceleration would have been much worse
    had he hit the Armco itself (a pretty immovable object). Sliding through
    the gap absorbed much of the energy of the crash.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From alister@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Thu Dec 3 12:16:02 2020
    On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 14:25:55 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:

    On 2020-12-02 4:43 a.m., AnthonyL wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:31:45 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at 140mph
    plus?

    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>

    As you are a racing driver what's your take on what Grosjean did?



    I think he overreacted to the situation that developed in front of him
    and moved right into a car that he couldn't see in his mirrors.

    Overreacted or simply reacted & got unlucky?
    hindsight shows that it was a bad choice, but who knows what the outcome
    would have been if he had rear ended one or more cars in front, Tuscan
    mk2?

    His actual collision with kyvat was not too severe, it was just a
    combination of all the other factors than turned it into the near
    disaster seen.



    --
    gossip, n.:
    Hearing something you like about someone you don't.
    -- Earl Wilson
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From News@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Thu Dec 3 10:00:37 2020
    On 12/3/2020 2:27 AM, keithr0 wrote:
    On 12/3/2020 9:26 AM, Sir Tim wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-02 4:43 a.m., AnthonyL wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:31:45 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor
    and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at
    140mph plus?

    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>

    As you are a racing driver what's your take on what Grosjean did?



    I think he overreacted to the situation that developed in front of him
    and moved right into a car that he couldn't see in his mirrors.


    That was the way I saw it too.

    Counter intuitively, I think that Grosjean was lucky to hit the join
    between two pieces of Armco. The deceleration would have been much worse
    had he hit the Armco itself (a pretty immovable object). Sliding through
    the gap absorbed much of the energy of the crash.


    Absent the halo, historically, that has ended in decapitation, .
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From nospam@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Thu Dec 3 20:28:27 2020
    On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 14:25:55 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-02 4:43 a.m., AnthonyL wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:31:45 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor
    and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at 140mph plus? >>>
    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>

    As you are a racing driver what's your take on what Grosjean did?



    I think he overreacted to the situation that developed in front of him
    and moved right into a car that he couldn't see in his mirrors.

    In how many accidents has Grosjean been deemed to be at fault in his
    F1 career?

    IMHO he seems one of those drivers that I'd rather be well away from.
    Perhaps a rush of blood to the head at times? I suppose the rear end
    of the grid is a bit like that anyway.


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Mark Jackson@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Thu Dec 3 17:39:50 2020
    On 12/3/2020 3:28 PM, AnthonyL wrote:
    In how many accidents has Grosjean been deemed to be at fault in his
    F1 career?

    IMHO he seems one of those drivers that I'd rather be well away
    from. Perhaps a rush of blood to the head at times? I suppose the
    rear end of the grid is a bit like that anyway.

    This may be relevant: https://f1statblog.co.uk/f1-penalty-points/

    Penalty points were instituted in 2014; Grosjean is 5th on the all-time
    total list with 21, behind Vettel (24), Kvyat (23), Verstappen (23), and Magnussen (22). He has zero in 2020 and only 2 in 2019. His peak year
    was 2018, when he had 7 - the same as Verstappen; neither was at the
    rear end of the grid that year.

    --
    Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
    Perhaps flamenco guitar is ethically innocent
    of any tendency to induce decay. - John Holbo
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Thu Dec 3 20:44:19 2020
    On 2020-12-02 11:27 p.m., keithr0 wrote:
    On 12/3/2020 9:26 AM, Sir Tim wrote:
    Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
    On 2020-12-02 4:43 a.m., AnthonyL wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:31:45 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor
    and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at
    140mph plus?

    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>

    As you are a racing driver what's your take on what Grosjean did?



    I think he overreacted to the situation that developed in front of him
    and moved right into a car that he couldn't see in his mirrors.


    That was the way I saw it too.

    Counter intuitively, I think that Grosjean was lucky to hit the join
    between two pieces of Armco. The deceleration would have been much worse
    had he hit the Armco itself (a pretty immovable object). Sliding through
    the gap absorbed much of the energy of the crash.

    I thought that too.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Thu Dec 3 20:52:04 2020
    On 2020-12-03 4:16 a.m., alister wrote:
    On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 14:25:55 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:

    On 2020-12-02 4:43 a.m., AnthonyL wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:31:45 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at 140mph
    plus?

    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>

    As you are a racing driver what's your take on what Grosjean did?



    I think he overreacted to the situation that developed in front of him
    and moved right into a car that he couldn't see in his mirrors.

    Overreacted or simply reacted & got unlucky?
    hindsight shows that it was a bad choice, but who knows what the outcome would have been if he had rear ended one or more cars in front, Tuscan
    mk2?


    6 of one half a dozen of the other.

    I also think there was a bit of Senna's famous "if you no longer go for
    a gap" in it. Grosjean had momentum and had two possible ways to deal
    with the situation that looked about to get bad in front of him:

    He could try to go through what he clearly thought was a gap opening to
    the right...

    ...or he could simply have backed off.

    I've felt that choice in club racing, and given that I have to pay for
    my own car, I've chosen the less risky "back off" option on most occasions.

    I remember once chasing a guy when I was renting a closed wheel car for
    the weekend. I was in a Honda CRX (with a bigger than stock engine) and
    I'd been chasing a guy in a (I think) late 90's Mustang for a bunch of
    laps. He was faster on the front straight, but I was clearly faster over
    an entire lap, so by turn 4-5 every lap I was back on his bumper. Turn 6
    is a tricky fast sweeper between concrete walls, and with all the
    pressure, he got into a tank-slapper. I could gone through the gaps that opened on either side of him, but the cost of choosing wrong seemed to
    high for what was just a club race.

    His actual collision with kyvat was not too severe, it was just a
    combination of all the other factors than turned it into the near
    disaster seen.

    Agreed.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From Alan Baker@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Thu Dec 3 23:09:48 2020
    On 2020-12-03 12:28 p.m., AnthonyL wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 14:25:55 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-12-02 4:43 a.m., AnthonyL wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:31:45 -0800, Alan Baker
    <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

    On 2020-11-30 12:23 a.m., texas gate wrote:
    Cuts off competitor
    and gets sent into the armco. Wow


    Really?

    You think that was a deliberate act: to cut off another car at 140mph plus?

    Yeah... ...you probably do. <sigh>

    As you are a racing driver what's your take on what Grosjean did?



    I think he overreacted to the situation that developed in front of him
    and moved right into a car that he couldn't see in his mirrors.

    In how many accidents has Grosjean been deemed to be at fault in his
    F1 career?

    I don't know.

    And it doesn't really matter. What is the judgement is THIS situation?


    IMHO he seems one of those drivers that I'd rather be well away from.

    There are certainly those out there even in club racing; perhaps,
    especially in club racing.

    Perhaps a rush of blood to the head at times? I suppose the rear end
    of the grid is a bit like that anyway.

    If you're at the back of the grid, you're probably going to take more
    risks to get noticed, yes. I think that may have factored into
    Grosjean's decision to go right rather than back out of it a bit.
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From geoff@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Fri Dec 4 20:52:28 2020
    On 4/12/2020 5:44 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
    On 2020-12-02 11:27 p.m., keithr0 wrote:


    Counter intuitively, I think that Grosjean was lucky to hit the join
    between two pieces of Armco. The deceleration would have been much
    worse had he hit the Armco itself (a pretty immovable object). Sliding
    through the gap absorbed much of the energy of the crash.

    I thought that too.


    That theory got rather pooh-poohed when I suggested it on Monday(?)

    geoff
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)
  • From nospam@24:150/2 to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Fri Dec 4 12:20:06 2020
    On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 17:39:50 -0500, Mark Jackson
    <mjackson@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:

    On 12/3/2020 3:28 PM, AnthonyL wrote:
    In how many accidents has Grosjean been deemed to be at fault in his
    F1 career?

    IMHO he seems one of those drivers that I'd rather be well away
    from. Perhaps a rush of blood to the head at times? I suppose the
    rear end of the grid is a bit like that anyway.

    This may be relevant: https://f1statblog.co.uk/f1-penalty-points/

    Penalty points were instituted in 2014; Grosjean is 5th on the all-time >total list with 21, behind Vettel (24), Kvyat (23), Verstappen (23), and >Magnussen (22). He has zero in 2020 and only 2 in 2019. His peak year
    was 2018, when he had 7 - the same as Verstappen; neither was at the
    rear end of the grid that year.


    And before the penalty points he received a ban in 2012, the first
    driver to be so penalised since Schumacher in 1994. But Schumacher
    was a bully.


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)