Hello Arelor!

Are you aware of the many Chinesse cars that are computer
operated and are absolutely ceasing to function when the
car manufacturer goes out of business?

Many? Which ones?

I could only find an article about Fisker, but the issue is not
conclusive.

If the car needs to access the manufacturer's servers for
some function and the servers are no more, well... some
models act so retarded you cannot use the car at all. I am
talking about cars with doors you can no longer open,
things like that.

Again.. which ones are those?

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--- OpenXP 5.0.64
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointface (618:250/1.9)

Re: chinese cars ceasing to function..
By: August Abolins to Arelor on Thu Sep 18 2025 10:55 am

Again.. which ones are those?

From the top of my head, WM Motors is the most prominent case in Asia..

Also I have heard some server failure at Tesla caused the door locks to go AWOL.


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gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (618:250/24)

Hello Arelor!

** On Thursday 18.09.25 - 10:16, Arelor wrote to August Abolins:

Re: chinese cars ceasing to function..
By: August Abolins to Arelor on Thu Sep 18 2025 10:55 am

Again.. which ones are those?

From the top of my head, WM Motors is the most prominent case in Asia..

No links to specific claims? :/ That's a lot of work on my
part. Found one on wm motors: (but it just seems like a
commentary rather than an investigative report.)

https://insideevs.com/news/732178/car-software-fail-wm-motor/

And.. it appears that wm motors is coming back in business.

Also I have heard some server failure at Tesla caused the door locks to go AWOL.

This one?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/cars/recalls/2025/09/16/tesla- door-handle-investigation/86184603007/

"Based on the preliminary review by the Office of Defects
Investigation, this "condition appears to occur when the
electronic door locks receive insufficient voltage from the
vehicle."

So.. the "the server" claim may be false.

That's not much different from any car with electrically locked
doors. A very small child might find it hard to unlock the
doors mechanically. But on my rav4 I can override the
elecrically locked mechanism by just flipping the door handle
from the inside. Too bad Tesla didn't seem to consider that
override - if that's true.

The rav4 is no different than trying to open the door
electrically from the outside: if the fob fails to operate,
then no dice. But the physical key from the outside overrides
everything.
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--- OpenXP 5.0.64
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointface (618:250/1.9)

That's not much different from any car with electrically locked

>doors. A very small child might find it hard to unlock the
>doors mechanically. But on my rav4 I can override the
>elecrically locked mechanism by just flipping the door handle
>from the inside. Too bad Tesla didn't seem to consider that
>override - if that's true.

The rav4 is no different than trying to open the door

>electrically from the outside: if the fob fails to operate,
>then no dice. But the physical key from the outside overrides
>everything.

My Ford Escape is the first car I owned where I tend to do
everything electronically compared to my older cars, but from
outside you can always use the hidden Keypad to unlock the
driver's door. Inside the car I will generally use the electronic
buttons on the doors to unlock other doors or the hatchback and
such. I don't think I've ever tried just pulling up the lock
'button' but I assume you can do that.

Not that it matters much since the electronic controls are
part of the ignition key and maybe if that were totally dead
you couldn't even start the car since maybe the chip built
into the key wouldn't put out the signal required to allow
the key to start the car.

---
* SLMR Rob * Pornography: The erotic pictures that YOU don't like
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Hello Rob!

My Ford Escape is the first car I owned where I tend to do
everything electronically compared to my older cars, but
from outside you can always use the hidden Keypad to
unlock the driver's door.

An Escape is my anticipated next vehicle.

A friend with a Fiat 500x claimed he was unable to start the
car when the batt in his fob seemed to go dead. Turns out, he
could have still placed the fob near the "Start" button at the
steering wheel column, and then press the "Start" - it was in
theory supposed to work that way. But.. before I had a chance
to look that up, he had the car towed!

Not that it matters much since the electronic controls are
part of the ignition key and maybe if that were totally dead
you couldn't even start the car since maybe the chip built
into the key wouldn't put out the signal required to allow
the key to start the car.

The Fiat above seemed to have a "dead" fob solution.

Apparently, his habit was/is to always leave the fob in the car
when he was home. :(


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--- OpenXP 5.0.64
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointface (618:250/1.9)

My Ford Escape is the first car I owned where I tend to do
everything electronically compared to my older cars, but
from outside you can always use the hidden Keypad to
unlock the driver's door.

An Escape is my anticipated next vehicle.

I like mine well enough, although it's a bit older now, 2017.
Less electronics in it than the newer models. But my key fob
battery is probably original and I can still unlock the doors
Etc. from 100 feet away. I have 2 Fobs built into keys.

A friend with a Fiat 500x claimed he was unable to start the

>car when the batt in his fob seemed to go dead. Turns out, he
>could have still placed the fob near the "Start" button at the
>steering wheel column, and then press the "Start" - it was in
>theory supposed to work that way. But.. before I had a chance
>to look that up, he had the car towed!

Yes, I was looking online and apparently that works for most cars.
In my case, I have to put the key in the ignition to start it so
it is automatically close enough that it should work.

Apparently, his habit was/is to always leave the fob in the car

>when he was home. :(

That doesn't sound too safe.. Heck, I'm in the middle of nowhere
and I still lock my car. Does leaving the fob in the car kill
the fob battery faster? Maybe with the car sensing it is near..

Again, I suspect the newer models will be different but I have
my extra key with built in fob hidden in the car in case I lose
my keys. I can unlock the car with the hidden keypad and then
find the extra key so I won't be stuck..

---
* SLMR Rob * I spilled spot remover on my dog... He's gone now. :(
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Hello Rob!

I like mine well enough, although it's a bit older now, 2017.

I'm looking to get nothing older than 2020.

Apparently, his habit was/is to always leave the fob in
the car when he was home. :(

That doesn't sound too safe.. Heck, I'm in the middle of
nowhere and I still lock my car. Does leaving the fob in
the car kill the fob battery faster? Maybe with the car
sensing it is near..

I have no experience with keyless fobs. But I would think that
the batt does indeed drain faster when it's able to communicate
with the vehicle.

Again, I suspect the newer models will be different but I
have my extra key with built in fob hidden in the car in
case I lose my keys. I can unlock the car with the hidden
keypad and then find the extra key so I won't be stuck..

You might want to make sure the batts in that hidden fob are
still good.

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--- OpenXP 5.0.64
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointface (618:250/1.9)

Hello August!

I like mine well enough, although it's a bit older now, 2017.

I'm looking to get nothing older than 2020.

Yes, if you can manage it the smartest thing to do is to buy a
'new' car that is 3 or 4 years old with low mileage, or consider
one a little newer with high enough miles to keep the price down.

Mine is older but I bought it in 2021 and it had just a little
over 60,000 km (37,000 miles) on it but I got it for about
half the price of a new one.

Cars take a big hit in value (price drop) the first year or two
so if you buy a little older, or something that would be less
popular (odd colour, higher than average miles) then you get
the advantage of that price drop.

Note: Higher than average miles is probably more okay for me
than most people. First, high miles means lots of long distance driving/commuting which is easier on a car than short trips and
secondly, I put very few miles on a car so mileage won't get so
high that things are breaking down due to wear too quickly.
In the 4 years I've had this car I've only put about 7000 km
(4300 miles) on it.

I have no experience with keyless fobs. But I would think that

>the batt does indeed drain faster when it's able to communicate
>with the vehicle.

I'd think too so since the car constantly is acknowledging the
fob is close enough to start the car.. Modern cars do way too
much on their own these days. Mine, if I open a door to get
something out of the car, makes all sorts of funny noises
while it's trying to decide if I'm going to start the car,
plus there is theft control active all the time. I was quite
surprised I didn't have any problems starting my car last
winter with it sitting for 2 weeks between being run, and
I'm pretty sure still with the original car battery, so it's
over 7 years old now.

You might want to make sure the batts in that hidden fob are

>still good.

By the sounds of things all I'd lose with a dead fob battery
would be the ability to unlock the car before I get to it
(and remotely blow the horn / sound the theft alarm).

I'm not sure what I might run into changing the fob battery.
They warn online that often they have to be re-programmed to
match your car after, and I'm not sure what's involved there.

Okay.. another look online and they say usually on that model
you don't have to re-programm them but they also mention that
the distance from the car it will unlock the doors will drop
dramatically quite a while before it stops working completely
so I will get some notice..

---
* SLMR Rob * ... Gotta run... Cat's caught in the printer...
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Yes, if you can manage it the smartest thing to do is to buy a
'new' car that is 3 or 4 years old with low mileage, or consider
one a little newer with high enough miles to keep the price down.

My last couple of cars have been like this and I'll never buy another new car again.

Back when I worked at GM, you could buy the company cars that were used by the managers. Low milage. Constant upkeep by a mechanic at the GM office.
(and they wonder why they were having financial problems.) A year, maybe 2, old. Big discount. I wish I could get in on that deal now, but no.

Anywa, the best deal that I found was something similar at the dealerships. They have "courtesy" cars that they sell. These are the vehicles that they use to pick you up or drop you off when bringing in your car for maintenance. Again, low milage. Well kept up. A few years old. And a big discount.

... Classic: A book which people praise but don't read. - Mark Twain

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
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Hello Dr. What!

** On Sunday 28.09.25 - 08:11, Dr. What wrote to Rob Mccart:

My last couple of cars have been like this and I'll never
buy another new car again.

I've had financial and ownership/trade convenience with 3
leases - ie. total 12 years in a row. However, I "bought out"
my last lease when I wasn't prepared to dole out any monthly
payments at the time. Now I regret I didn't take better care of
the purchased vehicle in my total ownership.

Anywa, the best deal that I found was something similar at
the dealerships. They have "courtesy" cars that they
sell. These are the vehicles that they use to pick you up
or drop you off when bringing in your car for maintenance.
Again, low milage. Well kept up. A few years old. And a
big discount.

I've heard someone mention "courtesy cars" for the first time
last year or so. I don't think dealers advertise them as such,
do they? ..or do you have to ask?

... Classic: A book which people praise but don't read. -
Mark Twain

He has many good ones, including "A clear conscience is the
sure sign of a bad memory."

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.64
* Origin: (618:400/23.10)

Yes, if you can manage it the smartest thing to do is to buy a
'new' car that is 3 or 4 years old with low mileage, or consider
one a little newer with high enough miles to keep the price down.

My last couple of cars have been like this and I'll never buy another new car

>ain.

Back when I worked at GM, you could buy the company cars that were used by

>the managers. Low milage. Constant upkeep by a mechanic at the GM office.
>(and they wonder why they were having financial problems.) A year, maybe 2,
>old. Big discount. I wish I could get in on that deal now, but no.

Anyway, the best deal that I found was something similar at the dealerships.

>y have "courtesy" cars that they sell. These are the vehicles that they use
>pick you up or drop you off when bringing in your car for maintenance. Again,
>w milage. Well kept up. A few years old. And a big discount.

There are also a lot of short term leases these days, 2 or 3 years,
and if you get lucky you can find one in good shape without too high
mileage on it.

That's where my last one came from. 3 years old and 61,580 km on
it (38,264 miles). That's not super low miles driven per year but
it was still not that high, and I don't put too many miles on so
I figured it should last me a while, and I got it for not much
more than half what that car would have cost me new.

---
* SLMR Rob * Be vewwy, vewwy quiet...I'm hunting tagwines...heheheh
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

My last couple of cars have been like this and I'll never
buy another new car again.

I've had financial and ownership/trade convenience with 3

>leases - ie. total 12 years in a row. However, I "bought out"
>my last lease when I wasn't prepared to dole out any monthly
>payments at the time. Now I regret I didn't take better care of
>the purchased vehicle in my total ownership.

Yes, I've leased a couple of cars over the years but you really
best come out ahead with those if you do buy the car out at the
end of the lease. You get it MUCH cheaper than the usual used
car cost and you know how it's been treated because it was you
treating it that way..

Anywa, the best deal that I found was something similar at
the dealerships. They have "courtesy" cars that they
sell. These are the vehicles that they use to pick you up
or drop you off when bringing in your car for maintenance.

I've heard someone mention "courtesy cars" for the first time

>last year or so. I don't think dealers advertise them as such,
>do they? ..or do you have to ask?

I think that depends a lot on the dealership and the area.
The car I traded in on my Escape was a Ford Taurus I got
from my father when he staopped driving. It was in pretty
good shape with very low miles on it for the age of the car
and the dealership told me later than they planned to just
auction it off but, after getting a good look at it, they
decided to keep it to use as a courtesy car. It was 16 years
old.

... Classic: A book which people praise but don't read. -
Mark Twain

He has many good ones, including "A clear conscience is the

>sure sign of a bad memory."

It's better to have people think you're a fool than to open
your mouth and remove all doubt.. Mark Twain B)

Or if you want to stick with Books:
The man who does not read good books had no advantage over
the man who can't read them..

---
* SLMR Rob * Invisible Tagline --> " "
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

I've heard someone mention "courtesy cars" for the first time
last year or so. I don't think dealers advertise them as such,
do they? ..or do you have to ask?

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Hello Rob!

** On Tuesday 30.09.25 - 08:56, Rob Mccart wrote to DR. WHAT:

There are also a lot of short term leases these days, 2 or
3 years, and if you get lucky you can find one in good
shape without too high mileage on it.

The short term leases must be early-terminated leases? I've
never heard of anything shorter than a 4yr one.

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--- OpenXP 5.0.64
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Hello Rob!

** On Tuesday 30.09.25 - 08:56, you wrote to me:

I've heard someone mention "courtesy cars" for the first time

last year or so. I don't think dealers advertise them as such,
do they? ..or do you have to ask?

The car I traded in on my Escape was a Ford Taurus I got
from my father ... after getting a good look at it, they
decided to keep it to use as a courtesy car. It was 16 years
old.

I thought that the definition of a courtesy car was that they
were "new" cars. Ah.. so, they can be a used car that they
want to exercise and give a test run for a while.
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--- OpenXP 5.0.64
* Origin: (618:400/23.10)

There are also a lot of short term leases these days, 2 or

> 3 years, and if you get lucky you can find one in good
> shape without too high mileage on it.

The short term leases must be early-terminated leases? I've

>never heard of anything shorter than a 4yr one.

When dealers have too much stock they will do any number of things
to move cars off the lots. I've definitely seen 3 year leases and
my car was a return from a lease after 3 years. I assumed it was
at the end of the lease but I guess I can't be certain.

That is newer though. Back when I was working full time for other
people I leased a Thunderbird and it was on a 5 year lease which,
coincidental to this conversation, I terminated after 1 year when
I left that job unexpectedly and didn't want to be locked into a
car that costly..

A few years later I bought a Ford Pickup from a lease a couple of
years before the lease was up. That was tricky because the dealer
who leased it didn't know it was being sold out of the lease.
It was all above board and the only difference it made to me was
instead of paying sales tax on the current value of the truck I
paid it on the lease buy-out amount which saved me a fair bit.
It was a lower amount than the MOT had as the Minimum value of
that vehicle but, because it was through a dealership, they
didn't force me to pay the tax on the higher amount.

I think the dealer could have blocked the sale and just taken
the truck back but they did me a favour letting me buy it instead
at a lower price than it would have sold for on their lot.

In that case it wasn't a matter of the leaser not able to handle
the payments, they had decided they needed a bigger truck.

---
* SLMR Rob * Keep ###### Tagline censors the #### off of our BBS!
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

When dealers have too much stock they will do any number of things
to move cars off the lots. I've definitely seen 3 year leases and
my car was a return from a lease after 3 years. I assumed it was
at the end of the lease but I guess I can't be certain.

Both of the cars I leased, in the 2010s, were 3 years. I assumed that was standard, at least here in the US.


* SLMR 2.1a * "The Metric System is the tool of the Devil!" - Granpa S
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

When dealers have too much stock they will do any number of things

>> to move cars off the lots. I've definitely seen 3 year leases and
>> my car was a return from a lease after 3 years. I assumed it was
>> at the end of the lease but I guess I can't be certain.

Both of the cars I leased, in the 2010s, were 3 years. I assumed that was

>standard, at least here in the US.

I think it is a lot more common in recent years than in the past.

Way back the leases ran for 5 years or so and the cars were almost useless/worthless by the time they came back to the dealer as,
especially back then, it was mostly people who drove a Lot that
were leasing cars.

I remember way back when my father was in industrial sales he
would occasionally have his 5 year lease terminated early by
the leasing company because they didn't want it to have 100,000+
miles on it when they got it back.

These days it's often a way to drive a new car without needing
a lot of money up front to buy it. In the long run, if you just
keep getting a new 3 year lease afer the last expired, it costs
you more than buying a car but, again, new car every 3 years and
selling a car you bought every 3 years would probably cost you
more since they drop so much in price those first few years..

---
* SLMR Rob * Message halted... Out of Tagline ideas Error.
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Hello Rob!

** On Tuesday 07.10.25 - 08:02, Rob Mccart wrote to MIKE POWELL:

These days it's often a way to drive a new car without needing
a lot of money up front to buy it. In the long run, if you just

[...]

A reply to you in MIN_CHAT.

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--- OpenXP 5.0.64
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Could be semantics.. Maybe a Courtesy Car is not thought of as
the same thing as a 'Loaner', something to drive while waiting for
your car to be repaired or whatever.. I don't imagine they'd want

The dealerships that I've dealt with defined "Courtesy Car" as a car that's owned by the dealership and is used for "gopher" tasks. ex: Picking up small parts, chaufering customers to work/home and back, etc.

Since the dealership never sold the car, it's considered "new", but it has many more miles on it than a normal new car. It's also been driven only by dealership personnel and maintained by the dealership.

... Next time you wave at me, use more than one finger!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
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