• JamNNTPd and UTF-8

    From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to All on Sun Mar 5 08:51:58 2023
    I had noticed that some Unicode characters were not displayed (showing the "rhombus with question mark" instead), precissely those that have a 0x8D byte when encoded in UTF-8. Examples: the cyrillic e (э), 0xD1 0x8D; the "thumbs up" emoji (👍), 0xF0 0x9F 0x91 0x8D.

    I've found that this issue can be fixed by adding "-keepsoftcr" to the corresponding line in jamnntpd.xlat, just like with CP866:

    ================================
    read UTF-8 utf-8 -keepsoftcr
    ================================

    Carlos

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: cyb nntp (2:341/234.1)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Mar 5 14:43:46 2023
    On 5 Mar 2023 9.51, Carlos Navarro wrote:

    I had noticed that some Unicode characters were not displayed (showing the "rhombus with question mark" instead), precissely those that have a 0x8D byte when encoded in UTF-8. Examples: the cyrillic e (), 0xD1 0x8D; the "thumbs up" emoji (), 0xF0 0x9F 0x91 0x8D.




    I've found that this issue can be fixed by adding "-keepsoftcr" to the corresponding line in jamnntpd.xlat, just like with CP866:

    ================================
    read UTF-8 utf-8 -keepsoftcr
    ================================

    Done. :)

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.8.0
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Mar 5 14:12:41 2023
    I had noticed that some Unicode characters were not displayed (showing
    the "rhombus with question mark" instead), precissely those that have a 0x8D byte when encoded in UTF-8. Examples: the cyrillic e (�), 0xD1 0x8D; the "thumbs up" emoji (�), 0xF0 0x9F 0x91 0x8D.




    I've found that this issue can be fixed by adding "-keepsoftcr" to the
    corresponding line in jamnntpd.xlat, just like with CP866:

    ================================
    read UTF-8   utf-8   -keepsoftcr
    ================================

    Done. :)

    Your message arrived here without the 0x8D chars... :-m
    Maybe your tosser removed them?

    Carlos

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: cyb nntp (2:341/234.1)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/6 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Mar 5 15:28:12 2023
    On 5 Mar 2023 15.12, Carlos Navarro wrote:

    >> ================================
    >> read UTF-8   utf-8   -keepsoftcr
    >> ================================

    TK> Done. :)

    Your message arrived here without the 0x8D chars... :-m

    Hmm..

    Maybe your tosser removed them?

    Maybe.. No idea..

    'Tommi

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.2.0.0
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Mar 5 15:33:41 2023

    Your message arrived here without the 0x8D chars... :-m
    Maybe your tosser removed them?

    Test from HPT. (👍)

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.8.0
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/1.0)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/6 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Mar 5 15:37:42 2023

    Test from HPT. ()

    Actually from Fastecho. :)

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.2.0.0
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.12 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Mar 5 15:17:02 2023
    Test from HPT. (👍)

    Looks fine now 😍 (U+1F60D, 0xF0 0x9F 0x98 0x8D)

    --
    Carlos
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: cyberiada mobile point (2:341/234.12)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Mar 5 16:23:07 2023
    On 5 Mar 2023 16.17, Carlos Navarro wrote:

    TK> Test from HPT. (👍)

    Looks fine now 😍 (U+1F60D, 0xF0 0x9F 0x98 0x8D)

    Good!

    I had stripping soft-cr's on in GEcho, now off. Let's see how this goes out.

    (👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.8.0
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.12 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Mar 5 16:21:11 2023
    Good! I had stripping soft-cr's on in GEcho, now off. Let's see
    how this goes out. (👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)

    Perfect! 8 thumbs up's!

    --
    Carlos
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: cyberiada mobile point (2:341/234.12)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Mar 5 18:35:13 2023
    Tommi wrote (2023-03-05):

    On 5 Mar 2023 16.17, Carlos Navarro wrote:

    Test from HPT. (👍)

    Looks fine now 😍 (U+1F60D, 0xF0 0x9F 0x98 0x8D)

    Good!

    I had stripping soft-cr's on in GEcho, now off. Let's see how this goes out.

    (👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)

    Does it work?
    Did I configure it correctly?

    ---
    * Origin: This site requires JavaScript (2:280/464.47)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Oli on Sun Mar 5 20:08:24 2023
    Hello, Oli.
    On 05/03/2023 19.35 you wrote:

    Tommi wrote (2023-03-05):
    On 5 Mar 2023 16.17, Carlos Navarro wrote:
    Test from HPT. (👍)
    Looks fine now 😍 (U+1F60D, 0xF0 0x9F 0x98 0x8D)
    Good!
    I had stripping soft-cr's on in GEcho, now off. Let's see how this goes
    out.
    (👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)(👍)
    Does it work?
    Did I configure it correctly?

    Looks ok in hotdoged.

    ---
    * Origin: This site requires JavaScript (2:280/464.47)

    --
    Tommi

    --- HotdogEd/2.13.5 (Android; Google Android; rv:1) Hotdoged/1675406179000 HotdogEd/2.13.5
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/1.0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Carlos Navarro on Thu Feb 8 05:08:14 2024
    Hello Carlos!

    05 Mar 2023 08:51, Carlos Navarro wrote to All:

    I had noticed that some Unicode characters were not displayed (showing the "rhombus with question mark" instead), precissely those that have
    a 0x8D byte when encoded in UTF-8. Examples: the cyrillic e (╨), 0xD1 0x8D; the "thumbs up" emoji (¡Flµ), 0xF0 0x9F 0x91 0x8D.

    I've found that this issue can be fixed by adding "-keepsoftcr" to the corresponding line in jamnntpd.xlat, just like with CP866:

    ================================
    read UTF-8 utf-8 -keepsoftcr
    ================================

    Carlos

    problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte, so only can change singlebyte in diffrent charsets

    better is to setup thunderbird to NOT send utf-8 at all, so keep what is supported in fidonet, but back from fidonet to thunderbird utf-8 works, have you tryed it ? :=)


    Regards Benny

    ... too late to die young :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/6.7.4-gentoo-dist (x86_64))
    * Origin: gopher://fido.junc.eu/ (2:230/0)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/0 to Benny Pedersen on Thu Feb 8 07:50:06 2024
    On 08.02.2024 7:08, Benny Pedersen wrote:

    better is to setup thunderbird to NOT send utf-8 at all

    Would you tell us how to do that with these newer TB's?

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: jamnntpd/lnx (2:221/0.0)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.99 to Benny Pedersen on Tue Feb 20 17:56:32 2024
    08/02/2024 6:08, Benny Pedersen -> Carlos Navarro:

    I've found that this issue can be fixed by adding "-keepsoftcr" to the
    corresponding line in jamnntpd.xlat, just like with CP866:

    ================================
    read UTF-8 utf-8 -keepsoftcr
    ================================

    problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte, so only can change singlebyte in diffrent charsets

    I don't understand what you mean. JamNNTPd seems to work fine with UTF-8, except for some issues with quotes.

    Carlos

    --- Mozilla Thunderbird
    * Origin: cyberiada-NNTP (2:341/234.99)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Carlos Navarro on Thu Feb 22 17:40:04 2024
    On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 23:56:32 +0100, Carlos Navarro -> Benny Pedersen wrote:

    08/02/2024 6:08, Benny Pedersen -> Carlos Navarro:

     CN>>> I've found that this issue can be fixed by adding "-keepsoftcr" to the
     CN>>> corresponding line in jamnntpd.xlat, just like with CP866:

     CN>>> ================================
     CN>>> read UTF-8   utf-8   -keepsoftcr
     CN>>> ================================

     BP>> problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte, so only can
     BP>> change singlebyte in diffrent charsets

    I don't understand what you mean. JamNNTPd seems to work fine with UTF-8, except for some issues with quotes.

    Bringing the thread from the Golded echo about Jamnntpd over here. Here's a test to see if those characters are before level 2 and 3 quotes on this reply.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Nicholas Boel on Thu Feb 22 17:42:10 2024
    Hello Accession,

    On Thursday February 22 2024 17:40, I wrote to Carlos Navarro:

    On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 23:56:32 +0100, Carlos Navarro -> Benny Pedersen wrote:

    08/02/2024 6:08, Benny Pedersen -> Carlos Navarro:

     CN>>>> I've found that this issue can be fixed by adding
     CN>>>> "-keepsoftcr" to the corresponding line in jamnntpd.xlat,
     CN>>>> just like with CP866:

     CN>>>> ================================
     CN>>>> read UTF-8   utf-8   -keepsoftcr
     CN>>>> ================================

     BP>>> problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte,
     BP>>> so only can change singlebyte in diffrent charsets

    I don't understand what you mean. JamNNTPd seems to work fine
    with UTF-8, except for some issues with quotes.

    Bringing the thread from the Golded echo about Jamnntpd over here.
    Here's a test to see if those characters are before level 2 and 3
    quotes on this reply.

    Quoted the whole thing in Golded. I don't see anything here. I also hex dumped the message before replying to it, and didn't see anything in there either. *shrug*

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231004
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Feb 23 07:36:40 2024
    Hello Nicholas Boel!

    23 Feb 24 07:05:22, Tommi Koivula wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    If you don't see the crap, it is probably because of
    your conversion settings in Golded.

    Or mine. I don't know. :)

    'Tommi

    --- ════════╗
    * Origin: ═╩══════════════════════════════ (2:221/1)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Feb 23 10:42:49 2024
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2024-02-22 17:40:04, you wrote to Carlos Navarro:

     CN>>>> I've found that this issue can be fixed by adding "-keepsoftcr"
     CN>>>> to
     CN>>>> the corresponding line in jamnntpd.xlat, just like with CP866:
    ^^

     CN>>>> ================================
     CN>>>> read UTF-8   utf-8   -keepsoftcr
     CN>>>> ================================
    ^^

     BP>>> problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte, so
     BP>>> only can change singlebyte in diffrent charsets
    ^^

    I don't understand what you mean. JamNNTPd seems to work fine with
    UTF-8, except for some issues with quotes.

    Bringing the thread from the Golded echo about Jamnntpd over here. Here's a
    test to see if those characters are before level 2 and 3 quotes on this reply.

    They are there on 2 and 3 (now 3 and 4) level quotes.


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.2.1.1
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Feb 23 10:46:14 2024
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2024-02-22 17:42:10, you wrote to you:

     CN>>>>> I've found that this issue can be fixed by adding
     CN>>>>> "-keepsoftcr" to the corresponding line in jamnntpd.xlat,
     CN>>>>> just like with CP866:

     CN>>>>> ================================
     CN>>>>> read UTF-8   utf-8   -keepsoftcr
     CN>>>>> ================================

     BP>>>> problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte,
     BP>>>> so only can change singlebyte in diffrent charsets

    I don't understand what you mean. JamNNTPd seems to work fine
    with UTF-8, except for some issues with quotes.

    Bringing the thread from the Golded echo about Jamnntpd over here.
    Here's a test to see if those characters are before level 2 and 3
    quotes on this reply.

    Quoted the whole thing in Golded. I don't see anything here. I also hex dumped the message before replying to it, and didn't see anything in there either. *shrug*

    They are in your message! And I see them:

    0160 74 2C 0D 20 C2 A0 43 4E 3E 3E 3E 3E 20 6A 75 73 t,.  CN>>>> jus
    ^^ ^^


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.2.1.1
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1.1 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Feb 23 07:05:22 2024
    Hi Nicholas.

    22 Feb 24 17:42:10, you wrote to you:

    àCN>>>>> I've found that this issue can be fixed by adding
    àCN>>>>> "-keepsoftcr" to the corresponding line in jamnntpd.xlat,
    àCN>>>>> just like with CP866:

    àCN>>>>> ================================
    àCN>>>>> read UTF-8àà utf-8àà -keepsoftcr
    àCN>>>>> ================================

    àBP>>>> problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte,
    àBP>>>> so only can change singlebyte in diffrent charsets

    ...

    Bringing the thread from the Golded echo about Jamnntpd over here.
    Here's a test to see if those characters are before level 2 and 3
    quotes on this reply.

    Quoted the whole thing in Golded. I don't see anything here. I also hex dumped the message before replying to it, and didn't see anything in
    there either. *shrug*

    But I do see crap there. And as you may see, it is not only the quotes, also multiple spaces are converted to crap.

    If you don't see the crap, it is probably because of your conversion settings in Golded.

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: Point One (2:221/1.1)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Feb 23 09:13:32 2024
    On 22.02.2024 23:42, Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Quoted the whole thing in Golded. I don't see anything here. I also hex dumped the message before replying to it, and didn't see anything in
    there either. *shrug*

    https://news.fidonet.fi/Capture.JPG

    ---
    * Origin: smapinntpd/lnx (2:221/1.0)
  • From Jay Harris@1:229/664 to Tommi Koivula on Fri Feb 23 03:51:26 2024
    On 23 Feb 2024, Tommi Koivula said the following...

    If you don't see the crap, it is probably because of
    your conversion settings in Golded.

    Or mine. I don't know. :)

    When viewing this message in Golded it had as empty tear line & the origin line has a line break. When viewed in Mystic is has a bunch of UTF-8 characters:

    https://postimg.cc/gallery/0khhW7t


    Jay

    ... IPA is what a Canadian says after drinking a bunch

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Northern Realms (1:229/664)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1.1 to Jay Harris on Fri Feb 23 10:32:58 2024
    Hi Jay.

    23 Feb 24 03:51:26, you wrote to me:

    On 23 Feb 2024, Tommi Koivula said the following...

    If you don't see the crap, it is probably because of
    your conversion settings in Golded.

    Or mine. I don't know. :)

    When viewing this message in Golded it had as empty tear line & the
    origin line has a line break. When viewed in Mystic is has a bunch of UTF-8 characters:

    https://postimg.cc/gallery/0khhW7t

    The message was written with Gossiped, which should have full utf-8 support. No wonder if some message readers fail to show these utf-8 tear and origin lines:

    https://news.fidonet.fi/tmp/gossiped.JPG

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: Point One (2:221/1.1)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Fri Feb 23 17:35:24 2024
    On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 13:05:22 +0000, Tommi Koivula -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

     NB>>> Bringing the thread from the Golded echo about Jamnntpd over here.
     NB>>> Here's a test to see if those characters are before level 2 and 3
     NB>>> quotes on this reply.

     NB>> Quoted the whole thing in Golded. I don't see anything here. I also hex
     NB>> dumped the message before replying to it, and didn't see anything in
     NB>> there either. *shrug*

    But I do see crap there. And as you may see, it is not only the quotes, also multiple spaces are converted to crap.

    If you don't see the crap, it is probably because of your conversion settings in Golded.

    I can see them in Thunderbird if I view the message source. Otherwise, they don't show. I've googled and found that Thunderbird does seem to have had issues with this in the past. I'm just looking for a way for it to not happen with my current setup.

    If the other two messages I posted from other nntp readers don't have that issue, then it's definitely TB, and I can start checking settings in the config editor.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Jay Harris on Fri Feb 23 18:36:20 2024
    On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 01:27:22 -0500, Jay Harris -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

     NB>> How did my original reply to Carlos look on your end?

    I think this is the message you're referring to: https://postimg.cc/gallery/kq34nZw

    Yes, that's the one.. along with most of the others I wrote from Thunderbird. It seems Thunderbird adds non-breaking spaces (or &nbsp in html) anywhere there's two or more concurrent spaces next to each other.

    I've completely disabled html in TB now, and am forcing plain-text. So we will see in the near future if there's still an issue.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Feb 24 02:10:51 2024
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2024-02-23 16:50:30, you wrote to me:

    They are in your message! And I see them:

    0160   74 2C 0D 20  C2 A0 43 4E  3E 3E 3E 3E  20 6A 75 73

    And yet they didn't show in your reply to me, like some of the other ones did. This or the last message you wrote, unless you removed them yourself.

    I didn't remove anything. I think it's better if you look at inbound and outbound .pkt files directly, and not rely on your editor to show you what is really in the messages.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.2.1.1
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Feb 24 02:15:52 2024
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2024-02-23 18:36:20, you wrote to Jay Harris:

     NB>>> How did my original reply to Carlos look on your end?
    ^^
    Still there...

    I think this is the message you're referring to:
    https://postimg.cc/gallery/kq34nZw

    Yes, that's the one.. along with most of the others I wrote from Thunderbird. It seems Thunderbird adds non-breaking spaces (or &nbsp in html) anywhere there's two or more concurrent spaces next to each other.

    I've completely disabled html in TB now, and am forcing plain-text. So we will see in the near future if there's still an issue.


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.2.1.1
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Feb 23 19:43:14 2024
    On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 08:15:52 +0100, Wilfred Van Velzen -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

      NB>>>> How did my original reply to Carlos look on your end?
     ^^
    Still there...

    Last attempt for the evening, I suppose. This one I changed the original message body to plain text before replying to it.

     JH>>> I think this is the message you're referring to:
     JH>>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/kq34nZw

     NB>> Yes, that's the one.. along with most of the others I wrote from
     NB>> Thunderbird. It seems Thunderbird adds non-breaking spaces (or &nbsp in
     NB>> html) anywhere there's two or more concurrent spaces next to each other.

    Frustrating, because I can't check it before the message is sent. It's something Thunderbird is doing after the message is saved.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Feb 23 19:47:02 2024
    On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 08:15:52 +0100, Wilfred Van Velzen -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

      NB>>>> How did my original reply to Carlos look on your end?
     ^^
    Still there...

     JH>>> I think this is the message you're referring to:
     JH>>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/kq34nZw

     NB>> Yes, that's the one.. along with most of the others I wrote from
     NB>> Thunderbird. It seems Thunderbird adds non-breaking spaces (or &nbsp in
     NB>> html) anywhere there's two or more concurrent spaces next to each other.

    Well, that didn't work. ;)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Feb 24 08:16:10 2024
    On 24.02.2024 4:55, Nicholas Boel wrote:

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Betterbird (Windows)

    There is another thunderbird clone called Epyrus. This one allows
    posting other charsets than utf-8.

    http://www.epyrus.org/

    ---
    * Origin: jamnntpd/lnx (2:221/1.0)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/6 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Feb 24 08:36:26 2024
    There is another thunderbird clone called Epyrus. This one allows
    posting other charsets than utf-8.

    http://www.epyrus.org/

    Seamonkey also allows posting other than utf-8.

    However, the problem is not utf-8, I think it has proved that it is Thunderbird.

    'Tommi

    --- FMail-lnx32 2.2.1.1
    * Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Feb 24 07:45:44 2024
    On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 14:16:10 +0200, Tommi Koivula -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    There is another thunderbird clone called Epyrus. This one allows
    posting other charsets than utf-8.

    Thank you. I will take a look, but posting in charsets other than utf-8 is not really an interest of mine. Fixing what I already enjoy using, is.

    For now, I will just have to quote one level so there are no complaints. ;)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Feb 24 07:53:30 2024
    On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 14:36:26 +0200, Tommi Koivula -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Seamonkey also allows posting other than utf-8.

    However, the problem is not utf-8, I think it has proved that it is Thunderbird.

    Agreed. However, Thunderbird is the easiest on my eyes, my most preferred email client, and even the default font seems to support way more utf-8 characters than any other newsreader I've tried. So I will keep looking into it and see if I can find any way to fix it (maybe even hacking smapinntpd to remove these spaces if present).

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sat Feb 24 08:00:38 2024
    On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 16:53:10 +0100, Wilfred Van Velzen -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    Check the .pkt file...

    No. I can see them if I view the message sources, and what else would we have to talk/gripe about if this wasn't brought up? Most of us would be hitting "Mark all groups/messages read recursively" or "Catch up all" and not posting anything.

    So you're welcome for drumming up some conversation. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Feb 25 09:14:10 2024
    On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 18:25:08 +0100, Carlos Navarro -> Benny Pedersen wrote:

    You're right about JamNNTPd not supporting multibyte. It wraps lines at 79 bytes, not at 79 chars. Therefore those that have UTF-8 chars (2 or more bytes) become shorter when wrapped. The more UTF-8 chars a line has, the shorter.

    This is noticeable in readers that don't support flowed text (most NNTP clients).

    ASCII:
    aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou

    UTF-8:
    áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú
    áéíóú áéíóú

    This looked fine in Thunderbird, and if quoted correctly when it gets back to you, should have both of them wrapped at the same point also.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/10 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Feb 25 19:54:40 2024
    From: Tommi Koivula <tommi@rbb.homeip.net>

    On 25.02.2024 13:30, Carlos Navarro wrote:

    You're right about JamNNTPd not supporting multibyte. It wraps lines
    at 79 bytes, not at 79 chars. Therefore those that have UTF-8 chars
    (2 or more bytes) become shorter when wrapped. The more UTF-8 chars a
    line has, the shorter.

    There are these settings in nntpserv.c:

    #define WRAP_WIDTH 72
    #define LINE_WIDTH 79
    #define MAX_WIDTH 997

    I tried to increase WRAP_WIDTH and LINE_WIDTH to something like 990
    once. It helped with quoting utf-8 lines, but for some reason I went
    back to originals.

    Anyway, the safest setting to avoid utf-8 quoting crap is to use "flowed
    off".

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: LCC SG - Linux 6.1.21-v7+ armv7l (2:221/10)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Carlos Navarro on Fri Mar 1 08:51:38 2024
    On 25.02.2024 13:25, Carlos Navarro wrote:


    problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte,

    You're right about JamNNTPd not supporting multibyte. It wraps lines
    at 79 bytes, not at 79 chars. Therefore those that have UTF-8 chars
    (2 or more bytes) become shorter when wrapped. The more UTF-8 chars a
    line has, the shorter.

    Actually by default Jamnntpd wraps to 72, not 79, but that is irrelevant. :) As you said, the problem with utf-8 text is that Jamnntpd counts bytes, not chars.

    I've set "#define WRAP_WIDTH 972" now in this Jamnntpd. I can re-wrap quoted text with Ctrl-R in TB. Seems nice so far.

    'Tommi

    ...0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: jamnntpd/lnx (2:221/1.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Fri Mar 1 19:58:16 2024
    On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 14:57:22 +0200, Tommi Koivula -> Tommi Koivula wrote:

    Looks ok now in Hotdoged.

    From what I've gathered, WRAP_WIDTH is your quotes. LINE_WIDTH is what
    you write.

    You probably don't want to mess with stuff you've quoted, as that has to
    be viewable in a 80 column terminal (BBSes, for example).

    LINE_WIDTH may need to be adjusted to 72, instead of 79. So when quoting
    79 characters it won't wrap the last 7 characters on to the next line.

    I'll give it a whirl. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Mar 2 07:18:46 2024
    Hello Accession,

    On Saturday March 02 2024 07:16, I wrote to Tommi Koivula:

    Now I'm testing WRAP_WIDTH = 72 as well as LINE_WIDTH = 72. But I have
    a feeling my long tearline will wrap early now, which I can't see
    until I post this message.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

    While it displays OK in Golded when viewed for the first time, once I quote it it's on the next line (which actually with the initials added is probably the proper way to handle it since it's 79 characters *before* being quoted). Though now at least it has the quote initials before it, whereas before it would wrap it to the next line and wouldn't put quote characters before it.

    The only downfall to this is now it will wrap a quoted line 73-79 characters long. But, it seems it will at least quote it properly now.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231112
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1 to Tommi Koivula on Fri Mar 1 08:57:22 2024
    Hello, Tommi Koivula.
    On 01/03/2024 8.51 you wrote:

    On 25.02.2024 13:25, Carlos Navarro wrote:
    problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte,
    You're right about JamNNTPd not supporting multibyte. It wraps lines
    at 79 bytes, not at 79 chars. Therefore those that have UTF-8 chars
    (2 or more bytes) become shorter when wrapped. The more UTF-8 chars a
    line has, the shorter.
    Actually by default Jamnntpd wraps to 72, not 79, but that is irrelevant. :) As you said, the problem with utf-8 text is that Jamnntpd counts bytes, not chars.
    I've set "#define WRAP_WIDTH 972" now in this Jamnntpd. I can re-wrap quoted text with Ctrl-R in TB. Seems nice so far.
    'Tommi
    ...0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789
    'Tommi

    http://pics.rsh.ru/img/Screens5769_saapazgl.jpg


    Looks ok now in Hotdoged.

    ---
    * Origin: jamnntpd/lnx (2:221/1.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Jay Harris on Fri Feb 23 16:44:42 2024
    On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 09:51:26 -0500, Jay Harris -> Tommi Koivula wrote:

    When viewing this message in Golded it had as empty tear line & the origin line has a line break.  When viewed in Mystic is has a bunch of UTF-8 characters:

    https://postimg.cc/gallery/0khhW7t

    How did my original reply to Carlos look on your end?

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Feb 23 16:50:30 2024
    On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 16:46:14 +0100, Wilfred Van Velzen -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    They are in your message! And I see them:

    0160   74 2C 0D 20  C2 A0 43 4E  3E 3E 3E 3E  20 6A 75 73

    And yet they didn't show in your reply to me, like some of the other ones did. This or the last message you wrote, unless you removed them yourself.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Jay Harris@1:229/664 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Feb 23 19:27:22 2024
    On 23 Feb 2024, Nicholas Boel said the following...

    How did my original reply to Carlos look on your end?

    I think this is the message you're referring to: https://postimg.cc/gallery/kq34nZw


    Jay

    ... I wanna be wise but I'm otherwise

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Northern Realms (1:229/664)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Jay Harris on Fri Feb 23 18:53:46 2024
    Hello Jay,

    On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 01:27:22 -0500, you wrote:

    How did my original reply to Carlos look on your end?

    I think this is the message you're referring to: https://postimg.cc/gallery/kq34nZw

    By the way, thanks for the screenshots and jumping into the converesation. It definitely seems like a Thunderbird issue so far, since I haven't seen it anywhere else as of yet.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
    --- slrn/pre1.0.4-9 (Linux)
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Feb 23 20:55:12 2024
    On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 08:15:52 +0100, Wilfred Van Velzen -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

      NB>>>> How did my original reply to Carlos look on your end?
     ^^
    Still there...

     JH>>> I think this is the message you're referring to:
     JH>>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/kq34nZw

     NB>> Yes, that's the one.. along with most of the others I wrote from
     NB>> Thunderbird. It seems Thunderbird adds non-breaking spaces (or
    Maybe? Maybe not?

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Betterbird (Windows)
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Feb 24 10:53:11 2024
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2024-02-23 19:43:14, you wrote to me:

      NB>>>>> How did my original reply to Carlos look on your end?
    ^^^^

    Still there.

     ^^
    Still there...

    Last attempt for the evening, I suppose. This one I changed the original message body to plain text before replying to it.

    Frustrating, because I can't check it before the message is sent. It's something Thunderbird is doing after the message is saved.

    Check the .pkt file...


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.2.1.1
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Feb 24 10:54:43 2024
    Hi Nicholas,

    On 2024-02-23 20:55:12, you wrote to me:

      NB>>>>> How did my original reply to Carlos look on your end?
     ^^
    Still there...

     JH>>>> I think this is the message you're referring to:
     JH>>>> https://postimg.cc/gallery/kq34nZw

     NB>>> Yes, that's the one.. along with most of the others I wrote from
     NB>>> Thunderbird. It seems Thunderbird adds non-breaking spaces (or
    Maybe? Maybe not?

    Still there...


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.2.1.1
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.99 to Benny Pedersen on Sun Feb 25 12:25:09 2024
    08/02/2024 6:08, Benny Pedersen -> Carlos Navarro:

    problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte,

    You're right about JamNNTPd not supporting multibyte. It wraps lines at 79 bytes, not at 79 chars. Therefore those that have UTF-8 chars (2 or more bytes) become shorter when wrapped. The more UTF-8 chars a line has, the shorter.

    This is noticeable in readers that don't support flowed text (most NNTP clients).

    ASCII:
    aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou

    UTF-8:
    áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú

    Carlos

    --- Mozilla Thunderbird
    * Origin: cyberiada-NNTP (2:341/234.99)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Feb 25 09:45:40 2024
    On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 18:25:08 +0100, Carlos Navarro -> Benny Pedersen wrote:

    problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte,

    You're right about JamNNTPd not supporting multibyte. It wraps lines at
    79 bytes, not at 79 chars. Therefore those that have UTF-8 chars (2 or more bytes) become shorter when wrapped. The more UTF-8 chars a line
    has, the shorter.

    This is noticeable in readers that don't support flowed text (most NNTP clients).

    ASCII:
    aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou aeiou

    UTF-8:
    áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú áéíóú

    For the record, def_flowed=off changes what looked correct before to this. This can also be a test for the top quoted line to see if those pesky non-breaking spaces are added here or not.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Fri Mar 1 19:47:06 2024
    On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 14:57:22 +0200, Tommi Koivula -> Tommi Koivula wrote:

    Hello, Tommi Koivula.
    On 01/03/2024 8.51 you wrote:

    On 25.02.2024 13:25, Carlos Navarro wrote:
    problem with jamnntpd is that it does not support multibyte,
    You're right about JamNNTPd not supporting multibyte. It wraps lines
    at 79 bytes, not at 79 chars. Therefore those that have UTF-8 chars
    (2 or more bytes) become shorter when wrapped. The more UTF-8 chars a
    line has, the shorter.
    Actually by default Jamnntpd wraps to 72, not 79, but that is
    irrelevant. :) As you said, the problem with utf-8 text is that Jamnntpd counts bytes, not chars.
    I've set "#define WRAP_WIDTH 972" now in this Jamnntpd. I can
    re-wrap quoted text with Ctrl-R in TB. Seems nice so far.
    'Tommi
    ...0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789
    0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789 0123456789
    'Tommi

    http://pics.rsh.ru/img/Screens5769_saapazgl.jpg


    Looks ok now in Hotdoged.


    Definitely doesn't look ok quoted back by hotdoged though. In TB or
    Golded. :)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Mar 2 07:55:17 2024
    Nicholas Boel wrote:

    http://pics.rsh.ru/img/Screens5769_saapazgl.jpg

    Looks ok now in Hotdoged.

    Definitely doesn't look ok quoted back by hotdoged though. In TB or Golded. :)

    Indeed! :D

    But that's the problem of the author how the written text is formatted. Hotdoded is not the best tool for editing messages. :)

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/6 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Mar 2 08:01:43 2024
    On 02.03.2024 3:58, Nicholas Boel wrote:

    From what I've gathered, WRAP_WIDTH is your quotes. LINE_WIDTH is what
    you write.

    You probably don't want to mess with stuff you've quoted, as that has to
    be viewable in a 80 column terminal (BBSes, for example).

    LINE_WIDTH may need to be adjusted to 72, instead of 79. So when quoting
    79 characters it won't wrap the last 7 characters on to the next line.

    These three settings needs a bit more studying of the code.. ;)

    #define WRAP_WIDTH 72
    #define LINE_WIDTH 79
    #define MAX_WIDTH 997

    'Tommi

    --- FMail-lnx32 2.2.1.1
    * Origin: jamnntpd/lnx (2:221/6.0)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Mar 2 07:16:12 2024
    On Sat, 2 Mar 2024 13:55:16 +0200, Tommi Koivula -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

    But that's the problem of the author how the written text is formatted. Hotdoded is not the best tool for editing messages. :)

    While that may be one case, in Golded the quoted text you sent off went
    the full width of my screen. So I'm not sure any client would know how
    to handle that seeing as though jam/smapinntpd is the one doing the quoting.

    Now I'm testing WRAP_WIDTH = 72 as well as LINE_WIDTH = 72. But I have a feeling my long tearline will wrap early now, which I can't see until I
    post this message.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Mar 2 07:31:40 2024
    On Sat, 2 Mar 2024 13:16:12 -0600, Nicholas Boel -> Tommi Koivula wrote:

    Now I'm testing WRAP_WIDTH = 72 as well as LINE_WIDTH = 72. But I have a feeling my long tearline will wrap early now, which I can't see until I post this message.

    Back to the defaults again. I have a feeling it's more noticeable while
    using '-smartquote' also. Since you're adding like 5+ characters to the
    line, and it doesn't seem like those extra characters added are taken
    into account in the WRAP_WIDTH or LINE_WIDTH checks.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)